MRQ review in Roolipelaaja (Roleplayer) magazine, Finland

[Vadrus]

Give us just a little time, and you may have the option to lay your hands on more Gloranthan material than youR BANK BALANCE can handle

Corrected it for you :twisted:

Hehe J/K I'll be buying it anyway as I'm a completist, 300+ RPGs in my collection so far


Vadrus

 

[Enpeze]

RQ3 didn't divorce itself from Glorantha

I beg to differ. It did very much so divorce itself from Glorantha, in that the game mechanics were seperated from the Glorantha setting (remember how all the in-game examples were set in Fantasy Earth?). That is what many Old Guard folks didn't like.

It divorced from Glorantha, which was quite a fine thing, because RQ is flexible enough to serve in more than just one setting.

 

[homerjsinnott]

RQ3 didn't divorce itself from Glorantha

I beg to differ. It did very much so divorce itself from Glorantha, in that the game mechanics were seperated from the Glorantha setting (remember how all the in-game examples were set in Fantasy Earth?). That is what many Old Guard folks didn't like.

So all of the stuff they printed for Glorantha was just alimony? :lol: :wink:


Seriously, they printed in total five non-glorantha items and over twice as many Glorantha items;
Troll Pak, Troll Gods, Gods of Gorantha, Strangers in Prax, Lords of Terror, Shadows on the Borderlands, River of Cradles, Gloranthan Bestiary, Sun County, Dorastor, Troll Ruins, and one other I can't think of, Troll Encounters?
(forgive me if I have missed any).

Before anyone says "most of this is reprints" there was new info in all the reprints.

So it was less of a divorce more of a lovers (big) tiff.

 

[Urox]

Seriously, they printed in total five non-glorantha items and over twice as many Glorantha items;
Troll Pak, Troll Gods, Gods of Gorantha, Strangers in Prax, Lords of Terror, Shadows on the Borderlands, River of Cradles, Gloranthan Bestiary, Sun County, Dorastor, Troll Ruins, and one other I can't think of, Troll Encounters?
(forgive me if I have missed any).

Before anyone says "most of this is reprints" there was new info in all the reprints.

It's Into the Troll Realms (and Troll Ruins is Haunted Ruins). While there was some new material, recycling Trollpak into 4 expansions wasn't well received (especially when the fanbase wanted Elfpak and Dorfpak).

You missed Apple Lane and Snakepipe Hollow as two more reprints. And you missed two of the more important ones, Genertela Crucible of the Hero Wars and Elder Secrets.

I there were a tad more than 5 non-Gloranthan publications.

 

[atgxtg]

RQ3 didn't divorce itself from Glorantha

I beg to differ. It did very much so divorce itself from Glorantha, in that the game mechanics were seperated from the Glorantha setting (remember how all the in-game examples were set in Fantasy Earth?). That is what many Old Guard folks didn't like.

So all of the stuff they printed for Glorantha was just alimony? :lol: :wink:


Seriously, they printed in total five non-glorantha items and over twice as many Glorantha items;
Troll Pak, Troll Gods, Gods of Gorantha, Strangers in Prax, Lords of Terror, Shadows on the Borderlands, River of Cradles, Gloranthan Bestiary, Sun County, Dorastor, Troll Ruins, and one other I can't think of, Troll Encounters?
(forgive me if I have missed any).

Before anyone says "most of this is reprints" there was new info in all the reprints.

So it was less of a divorce more of a lovers (big) tiff.

That is becaase of the mid 90s revival of RQ, when wise and friendlier people at AH let Chaosium get the Glorantha stufff out. For the fist few years under AH, there were only 4 or so GLorantha porducts released, most of which were reprints. About the only good Gloranthan book to comoe out in the early years that wasn't a reworking of something from RQ2 was the GLorantha box set, with culutures and info on the lands of GLorantha.

And yeah, you did miss Elder Gods.

 

[atgxtg]

If there is anything that I will give MRQ credit for being superior over over RQ3 is that it looks like we wont have to wait for years to see new Gloranthan stuff.

Give us just a little time, and you may have the option to lay your hands on more Gloranthan material than you can handle

Do as me, ask your target demographic. I read through my copy of MRQ yesterday, and you couldn't have done a better job of alienating me from the game if you had tired. Everything that I liked about RQ isn't in the new edtion. I'll pick up my pre-ordered Compainion when it comes out, and that's it.

 

[homerjsinnott]

Seriously, they printed in total five non-glorantha items and over twice as many Glorantha items;
Troll Pak, Troll Gods, Gods of Gorantha, Strangers in Prax, Lords of Terror, Shadows on the Borderlands, River of Cradles, Gloranthan Bestiary, Sun County, Dorastor, Troll Ruins, and one other I can't think of, Troll Encounters?
(forgive me if I have missed any).

Before anyone says "most of this is reprints" there was new info in all the reprints.

It's Into the Troll Realms (and Troll Ruins is Haunted Ruins). While there was some new material, recycling Trollpak into 4 expansions wasn't well received (especially when the fanbase wanted Elfpak and Dorfpak).

There was as much new material as reprints, maybe more. We didn't mind, we would have liked them,(Elf ruckpack and dwarven suitcase) but it didn't stop us playing RQ, did it you?( I feel sorry for you if it did).

You missed Apple Lane and Snakepipe Hollow as two more reprints. And you missed two of the more important ones, Genertela Crucible of the Hero Wars and Elder Secrets.

I there were a tad more than 5 non-Gloranthan publications.

Do you mean "I thought there were a tad more than 5 non-Gloranthan publications?"

Here they are for your delight;
Eldarad The Lost City }
Daughters of Darkness and the Chronicals of Santon. } don't say these two out loud!
Land of Ninja :roll:
Vikings
Monster Coliseum.

And if you really want to be picky, Runequest Cities. Even Monster Coliseum isn't really non-Gloranthan (I know that the examples were set on alter-earth (the pain of it! oh my righteous anger!!). More a generic thing rather than non-G.



I did actually remember Elder Secrets and Crucible, but then didn't write them down for some strange reason, I didn't remember Apple Lane or Snakepipe though.

But the fact remains that RQ3 had a lot more Gloranthan stuff than Non.

 

[Urox]

There was as much new material as reprints, maybe more. We didn't mind, we would have liked them,(Elf ruckpack and dwarven suitcase) but it didn't stop us playing RQ, did it you?( I feel sorry for you if it did).

No, I just didn't buy them until much later when I found some cheap used copies. I suspect it would be bad news for Mongoose if there RQ line winds up in the discount and used bins anytime soon. When people say that some of the points of MQ have been argued to death I have to laugh, as people are still debating RQ3 and TrollPak!

And I was thinking of RuneQuest Cities and Griffin Island, so that's a tad over 5.

As for TrollPak, I believe their sales slogan was "50% more for 300% of the price!"

Of course, it's unthinkable in this day and age that a game company would take a complete product and break it out over multiple incomplete releases...

 

[atgxtg]

Of course, it's unthinkable in this day and age that a game company would take a complete product and break it out over multiple incomplete releases...

It was unthinkable in that day and age. These days, it's just business as usual. Back then most companies used to try and see just how much they could fit into a book, as opposed to how many books they can spread something over. Half the time, the stuff doesn't get printed becuase the company goes under first.

Back then it was the designers printing up stuff that they were having fun with, now it's all marketing and target demiographics.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Back then it was the designers printing up stuff that they were having fun with, now it's all marketing and target demiographics.

I'll take this on - you are quite, quite wrong.

Why are we releasing the RuneQuest (and other games, for that matter) in this format?

Because that is what you guys want.

You are welcome to argue against that, but I have several years worth of sales records that demonstrate, in black and white, what the game buying public want.

In short, this is no cynical marketing exercise. This is what you guys have asked for, by voting with your Dollars. . .

 

[Vadrus]

Back then it was the designers printing up stuff that they were having fun with, now it's all marketing and target demiographics.

I'll take this on - you are quite, quite wrong.

Why are we releasing the RuneQuest (and other games, for that matter) in this format?

Because that is what you guys want.

You are welcome to argue against that, but I have several years worth of sales records that demonstrate, in black and white, what the game buying public want.

In short, this is no cynical marketing exercise. This is what you guys have asked for, by voting with your Dollars. . .

TBH I find this answer odd, I have over 300 rpgs in my collection and very few of them have multiple books just to get the core rules, in fact 95%+ are rules and some background in one book supported by extra settings or adventures with at most one companion (mostly new player backgrounds, skills and equipment) and/or GM's book.

Looking around I can find very few that follow MRO's example and those that did tended to be a rules lite version supported by a fuller rulebook later on.

Beyond Gurps, the action system and one or two very minor systems I can find virtually none that follow this release pattern.

What games is your data based upon?


Vadrus

 

[Cobra]

I have over 300 rpgs in my collection and very few of them have multiple books just to get the core rules...

Zowie! Who knew there were so many RPGs? Not me!

C.

 

[andakitty]

Er, Vadrus? D&D, NWOD, WFRP2, Exalted... It looks like a very common model these days to me. As in, practically ALL the popular RPGs out there right now. Some are more generic, GURPS and Hero, but they have a similar model too. Keep up the flow, sell what continues to sell. Mongoose is just following an established and successful pattern, IMO.

 

[atgxtg]

Back then it was the designers printing up stuff that they were having fun with, now it's all marketing and target demiographics.

I'll take this on - you are quite, quite wrong.

Why are we releasing the RuneQuest (and other games, for that matter) in this format?

Because that is what you guys want.

You are welcome to argue against that, but I have several years worth of sales records that demonstrate, in black and white, what the game buying public want.

In short, this is no cynical marketing exercise. This is what you guys have asked for, by voting with your Dollars. . .

Well you took me on and proved my point. Read the quote.

Rather than printing up something that you were having fun with, you printed something that you believed others wanted based upon several years of sales records.

That IS a cynical marketing exercise.

It is the fundamental differnece between doing someing as a passion, and doing it to make money.

 

[mthomason]

That IS a cynical marketing exercise.

It is the fundamental differnece between doing someing as a passion, and doing it to make money.

Giving the larger gaming audience what it wants = cynical marketing exercise?

In that case I'm all for Mongoose's cynical marketing exercise and hope they produce many more in the future.

 

[MongooseMatt]

It is the fundamental differnece between doing someing as a passion, and doing it to make money.

Why is it impossible to do both, and stay in business?

 

[atgxtg]

That IS a cynical marketing exercise.

It is the fundamental differnece between doing someing as a passion, and doing it to make money.

Giving the larger gaming audience what it wants = cynical marketing exercise?

In that case I'm all for Mongoose's cynical marketing exercise and hope they produce many more in the future.

Doing something to make money as opposed to having a passion for what you are doing.

Hey, if this is what you want, enjoy. It isn't what I want, nor sdoes it seem to be go over well with the "old guard" RQ players.

Since the largest gaming audience is the D&D crowd, why not just market it for them?

 

[atgxtg]

It is the fundamental differnece between doing someing as a passion, and doing it to make money.

Why is it impossible to do both, and stay in business?

Hold on, you are trying to change the subkject. You took me on claiming that I was wrong about the differences in how game designers worked in the 90 as compared to today.

Now in answer to your question, it isn't imopossible, but it requires two areas of overlap. In regards to RuneQuest, how fond are you of the RQ game? Did you play in a lot in the past? Or was it just the latest assignment? What RPGs do you actually like to play?

RQ2 and RQ3 grew out of what the designers and gaming groups at Chaosium were doing. D&D, Palladium, GURPS, HERO System, and the other big names in the gaming field all evloved in theeir development.

The changes I've seen look like an attempt to turn RQ into for disgrunted D&D players, not RuneQuest players. We lost dark sense, mount's damage bonus or charges, a decent defense, resistiance table, special successes, and got night vision, set spear for charge, combat by attrition, and saving throws.

 

[Steve B]

Here's the logic flaw: a Companion only makes sense when there's too much stuff of an extraneous nature to PHYSICALLY fit into a rulebook AND it becomes available at an appropriate time.

A good example:
BI's WFRP. The main book is just over 250 pages and presents a complete game. They have a forthcoming Companion (128 pages) that adds random stuff. Lots of random stuff that's totally unnecessary, but will be great to have. Each section on it's own is too tiny to stand alone, but it all fits well in a Companion. And it's coming out about 2 years after the main rules.

Bad example:
MRQ (120 pages) and MRQ Companion (96 pages.) Together, they are still smaller than the WFRP main book. Many are stating that the Companion is a must have because the main book isn't complete. Not a "it's so cool, I must have it!" but a "oh, there's the rest of my rulebook" must have. And, they are released in the same month!

So, market analysis may show people want a 'Companion', but I doubt many people want it the way MRQ has provided it.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hold on, you are trying to change the subkject. You took me on claiming that I was wrong about the differences in how game designers worked in the 90 as compared to today.

Now in answer to your question, it isn't imopossible, but it requires two areas of overlap. In regards to RuneQuest, how fond are you of the RQ game? Did you play in a lot in the past? Or was it just the latest assignment? What RPGs do you actually like to play?

I am really not trying to change the subject - I have answered all your points (whether they are to your satisfaction is another matter, as we are both at subjective viewpoints. . .).

As for your questions above, we never, ever take on a licence unless someone at Mongoose has a positive passion for the subject. Ever. This is what we do for a living. We also like to enjoy what we do.

As for RQ being an 'assignment', well, I am the one who usually chooses who does what and when, and this was a project I took on myself. Draw your own conclusions from that.