Movement Issues

[languagegeek]

The key bit of information our group missed was that, when charging, the PC doesn’t actually arrive until their last CA. Our warrior, for his first CA, sprinted his full movement x 5 and was about five metres short of his opponent. The next SR, the opponent stepped forwards and attempted to club our poor hero. As our warrior had no CAs left, he was about to get pummelled until we thought, "hang on a minute, that doesn’t make sense".

However, if he doesn’t get into melee until his last CA, then it works out nicely. I’m guessing this interpretation is RAW, if not, I think we’ll go for it anyway.

 

[Grimolde]

The key bit of information our group missed was that, when charging, the PC doesn’t actually arrive until their last CA. Our warrior, for his first CA, sprinted his full movement x 5 and was about five metres short of his opponent. The next SR, the opponent stepped forwards and attempted to club our poor hero. As our warrior had no CAs left, he was about to get pummelled until we thought, "hang on a minute, that doesn’t make sense".

However, if he doesn’t get into melee until his last CA, then it works out nicely. I’m guessing this interpretation is RAW, if not, I think we’ll go for it anyway.

I think it works, that, a charge takes up all your CAs bar 1. And that 1 CA is used to attack your target at the end of your charge. If you cannot arrive at your target to attack, then you shouldn't charge.

 

[Dan True]

But, then what does the target of the charge do, while you are charging towards him? Can he simply just run 8 metres to the right and hide behind the ogre?

But again, this should properly be left to the individual situation and dm.

 

[Grimolde]

But, then what does the target of the charge do, while you are charging towards him? Can he simply just run 8 metres to the right and hide behind the ogre?

But again, this should properly be left to the individual situation and dm.

I'd say the target has to stand there until he can act on his SR, or react to the charger's attack.

 

[Dan True]

But, then what does the target of the charge do, while you are charging towards him? Can he simply just run 8 metres to the right and hide behind the ogre?

But again, this should properly be left to the individual situation and dm.

I'd say the target has to stand there until he can act on his SR, or react to the charger's attack.

I meant on his own SR, since that probably comes before the chargers has finished his charge.

 

[PhilHibbs]

But, then what does the target of the charge do, while you are charging towards him? Can he simply just run 8 metres to the right and hide behind the ogre?

If A charges towards B but doesn't get there in time to make an attack, then B can run away, take cover, or set his spear to receive the charge like a boar (is there a rule for that?).

 

[Grimolde]

But, then what does the target of the charge do, while you are charging towards him? Can he simply just run 8 metres to the right and hide behind the ogre?

But again, this should properly be left to the individual situation and dm.

I'd say the target has to stand there until he can act on his SR, or react to the charger's attack.

I meant on his own SR, since that probably comes before the chargers has finished his charge.

Not sure what you are saying. But, obviously the idea is that a charge allows you to run at an opponent and smack him with something. Thus, the target cannot do anything once being charged. He has to stand there and receive it.

I've actually seen this rule in another game, I think it was a wargame.

 

[Dan True]

But, then what does the target of the charge do, while you are charging towards him? Can he simply just run 8 metres to the right and hide behind the ogre?

If A charges towards B but doesn't get there in time to make an attack, then B can run away, take cover, or set his spear to receive the charge like a boar (is there a rule for that?).

Yup, when you attack you can brace with a spear or something like it, and use the charger's damage bonus against him (including the upping from charge).

I meant on his own SR, since that probably comes before the chargers has finished his charge.

Not sure what you are saying. But, obviously the idea is that a charge allows you to run at an opponent and smack him with something. Thus, the target cannot do anything once being charged. He has to stand there and receive it.

I've actually seen this rule in another game, I think it was a wargame.

Of course, if the charge is only a few metres... But, we've just established that it takes the rest of the turn to charge (just as with sprint). So:

A Declares a charge against B on his first CA. He will only connect at his last CA, since he has 3 CAs, there is one CA he looses because he spends it on storming towards B.

Will B just have to stand there and look at A charge 20 metres, without being able to react other than the reactions described in charge (attack or evade). Why can't he just turn around and run, or step 5 metres to the left and hide behind his ogre buddy? Especially if he has CAs, because he has not acted yet.

Again, I can forgive this not being covered as it is very situation specific.. But would be nice to get Loz's thoughts on this.

- Dan

 

[duncan_disorderly]

But, then what does the target of the charge do, while you are charging towards him? Can he simply just run 8 metres to the right and hide behind the ogre?

If A charges towards B but doesn't get there in time to make an attack, then B can run away, take cover, or set his spear to receive the charge like a boar (is there a rule for that?).

I think the question is more like

A has a "charge" move of 31m
A and B are 30m apart
both have 3 CA's -

At the start of the round A declares a charge on B - he will get there on his 3rd CA. What can B do with his first and second CA's since he isn't charging?

Obviously he could retreat up to 8m, which would mean A can't reach him. If he is armed with missile weapon(s) he can also make ranged attacks on A as he does so (Can A Parry or Evade while charging (assume he is using a shield..) and if he does so, can he still attack if he makes contact).

What if he moves up to 8m to the side, which still leaves him in "charge range" (at least for the sake of this example without getting all pythagorean) but puts him besides his ally, C. Does A end up where B started the round, or where B moves to during the round? Can he "abort" the charge when he realises he will be facing 2 opponents rather than 1, and if so, how far has he moved when he aborts and what (if anything) can he do with the rest of his move?

 

[Dan True]

... stuff ... ?

Exactly, those are all valid questions

 

[Deleriad]

I keep it simple.

If you're not engaged in combat and you want to move you don't really need CAs and initiative, you can just move.

So say Burly Bob who is 10m away from decides to charge Little Liam. If Little Liam is not engaged in combat, Little Liam could just turn tail and run. In that case it's chase time.

If on the other hand Little Liam wants to throw a dagger at Burly Bob then scarper then you would want to check initiative and SR etc. E.g. Bob SR 9 has a lower SR than Liam (14), Bob has 2 CAs and Liam has 3. Bob has an AP of -4. In that case. The round probably unfolds like this.
SR 14. Liam delays.
SR 9 - Bob charges. GM rules that Bob gets there at the end of the round.
SR 8 Liam throws dagger
SR 14. Liam runs.
Now into chase time.

Alternately if Liam were charging Bob
SR 14 Liam charges. He's fast an nimble so can probably cover the 10m in a single CA.
SR 9 Bob throws dagger starts to back off.
I would rule that Bob needs to win an opposed Athletics contest in order to get up enough speed to start a chase.

Basically it's nearly always going to be a judgement call. When all else fails, use opposed Athletics rolls with postives and negatives for relative speeds, distance apart and so on.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Let's say my Movement gives me 31 metres during the combat round.

How do you figure that number? *Update*: Got it, "subtract armour penalty".

 

[languagegeek]

But, then what does the target of the charge do, while you are charging towards him? Can he simply just run 8 metres to the right and hide behind the ogre?

It makes sense that the target could choose to prepare for the charge or try and get out of the way. Couldn't the target, on their CA, turn and sprint into the woods? I don't know if charging should force the defender into a deer-in-the-headlights situation.

 

[Loz]

It makes sense that the target could choose to prepare for the charge or try and get out of the way. Couldn't the target, on their CA, turn and sprint into the woods? I don't know if charging should force the defender into a deer-in-the-headlights situation.

I agree. It depends on Strike Rank. If a foe being charged is aware of the charge (because he can see it) he can prepare - either by standing firm to receive the charge, or moving to try to get out of the way.

If a foe is unaware he's being charged - because his back's turned or he's engaged with another opponent - you could allow a perception roll at a penalty to see if he suddenly becomes aware of the incoming attack. In a case like this, though, I'd rule that all he can do is either stand fast or evade - it will depend on the circumstances - but not flee.

 

[Grimolde]

It looks to me as if charging is going to be ineffective in most scenarios because the target can simply spend 1 CA and 'side step' 2 metres to avoid.

In a way I like this, because for me it serves as a good example of how the MRQ2 rules can work. They are robust yet very loose and abstract even.

I think I'm getting it now. The rules are there to help guide the GM to a decision. They are not meant to be rigid and cover every eventuality.

I'm starting to realise that MRQ2 is a state of mind.

 

[Dan True]

It looks to me as if charging is going to be ineffective in most scenarios because the target can simply spend 1 CA and 'side step' 2 metres to avoid.

In a way I like this, because for me it serves as a good example of how the MRQ2 rules can work. They are robust yet very loose and abstract even.

I think I'm getting it now. The rules are there to help guide the GM to a decision. They are not meant to be rigid and cover every eventuality.

I'm starting to realise that MRQ2 is a state of mind.

Yup, not as rigid or precise as many other systems. Better fluency for the gm.

In the case of sidestepping, I would probably allow the charger to slightly alter his course (unless of course there's something blocking the target now). Also, charging an enemy that can react and can plainly see you, is supposed to not be too good. How often do you see the character in a movie who charges headlong towards a enemy with room and time to prepare, actually do something useful? It's a lesson in either charging only people who are occupied, or outflank them first.

- Dan

 

[Grimolde]

It looks to me as if charging is going to be ineffective in most scenarios because the target can simply spend 1 CA and 'side step' 2 metres to avoid.

In a way I like this, because for me it serves as a good example of how the MRQ2 rules can work. They are robust yet very loose and abstract even.

I think I'm getting it now. The rules are there to help guide the GM to a decision. They are not meant to be rigid and cover every eventuality.

I'm starting to realise that MRQ2 is a state of mind.

Yup, not as rigid or precise as many other systems. Better fluency for the gm.

In the case of sidestepping, I would probably allow the charger to slightly alter his course (unless of course there's something blocking the target now). Also, charging an enemy that can react and can plainly see you, is supposed to not be too good. How often do you see the character in a movie who charges headlong towards a enemy with room and time to prepare, actually do something useful? It's a lesson in either charging only people who are occupied, or outflank them first.

- Dan

And this is a perfect example of what I mean

Gorgeously abstract

 

[Da Boss]

One thing I thought was odd was that you can't charge back??

So if both are cavalry you can't have them charge each other??

I base most of my gaming on cinematic style so also not sure why you can't parry an oncoming charger??

Eg: a Roundhead cavalryman charges my mounted cavalier from distance, should it not spur my own horse and meet in the middle in a clash of steel??

 

[Dan True]

One thing I thought was odd was that you can't charge back??

So if both are cavalry you can't have them charge each other??

I would probably allow it... It is deadly, but possible.

I base most of my gaming on cinematic style so also not sure why you can't parry an oncoming charger??

There is nothing in the rules that you can't parry an incoming charge? At least not what I have seen.

- Dan

 

[Grimolde]

Same here

If two combatants want to charge into each other, they can. And they can suffer the consequences too! I wouldn't even bother with SRs* and who gets to strike first. Attacks will be judged as being simultaneous.

EDIT: Other than having both act upon the higher of the two combatants of course