Morale In Battlefield/World War 2 Evolution

[GhostWolf69]

oh another thing I find odd, you can leave a model out of LOS of the enemy effectively making your squad immune to suppression, since all models must be allocated a hit to suppress them....

I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into that idea. Any die other than a 1 counts toward suppression. You need not see all the models in a unit to suppress it, nor need to allocate all the dice to all the models.

That was exactly my take on it.

/wolf

 

[Mr Evil]

oh another thing I find odd, you can leave a model out of LOS of the enemy effectively making your squad immune to suppression, since all models must be allocated a hit to suppress them....

I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into that idea. Any die other than a 1 counts toward suppression. You need not see all the models in a unit to suppress it, nor need to allocate all the dice to all the models.

page 19 of rule book



basicly you only have to alocate as many hit dice as their are modles in the unit, so yes if their are 3 modles in the unit but 2 are out of los and you have to alocate all 4 dice to the guy you can see, he is both most probably dead and the unit is supressed

hope that helps.

 

[GhostWolf69]

oh another thing I find odd, you can leave a model out of LOS of the enemy effectively making your squad immune to suppression, since all models must be allocated a hit to suppress them....

I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into that idea. Any die other than a 1 counts toward suppression. You need not see all the models in a unit to suppress it, nor need to allocate all the dice to all the models.

page 19 of rule book



basicly you only have to alocate as many hit dice as their are modles in the unit, so yes if their are 3 modles in the unit but 2 are out of los and you have to alocate all 4 dice to the guy you can see, he is both most probably dead and the unit is supressed

hope that helps.

Thanks... that guy had me worried there for a while... and glad to see my initial instinct and way to interpret the rules is correct. Goes to show the game has some merits.

/wolf

 

[cordas]

Never played SG2, but this game does have more than a few merits I feel, and whilst it might not have everything that SG2 (or any other war games has) it IS a different game.

I think the rules do cover most of those issues, yes it does need a bit of stretching to do this in some cases, and maybe it doesn't cover them all, but you can't just dismiss what this games offers either. At the end of the day no one should force anyone to play a game they don't want to play so votes with feet can be applied.

 

[GhostWolf69]

Never played SG2, but this game does have more than a few merits I feel, and whilst it might not have everything that SG2 (or any other war games has) it IS a different game.

I think the rules do cover most of those issues, yes it does need a bit of stretching to do this in some cases, and maybe it doesn't cover them all, but you can't just dismiss what this games offers either. At the end of the day no one should force anyone to play a game they don't want to play so votes with feet can be applied.

Agreed. It has merits. And I do like it. I never said otherwise. But liking what it has to "offer" and talking about what is still missing (and could or couldn't be included) are two separate things.

/wolf

 

[emperorpenguin]

oh another thing I find odd, you can leave a model out of LOS of the enemy effectively making your squad immune to suppression, since all models must be allocated a hit to suppress them....

I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into that idea. Any die other than a 1 counts toward suppression. You need not see all the models in a unit to suppress it, nor need to allocate all the dice to all the models.

page 19 of rule book



basicly you only have to alocate as many hit dice as their are modles in the unit, so yes if their are 3 modles in the unit but 2 are out of los and you have to alocate all 4 dice to the guy you can see, he is both most probably dead and the unit is supressed

hope that helps.

I will tell Lorcan he's playing it wrong :wink:

 

[emperorpenguin]

so anyway is it just me that finds tank ramming is a) silly and b) happens way too much?

 

[Mr Evil]

so anyway is it just me that finds tank ramming is a) silly and b) happens way too much?

a) yes sorta b)no

it happenes at first but people soon realise its not a great tactic and at times a waist of an action.

thing is infantry protect your armoured vehicles from hilux ramming, anything ramming a tank from the front is liable to just bounce of, and against infantry guns are the best way to eliminate the enemy troopers.

ram enemy infantry in cover and they get to move out of the way befor you roll your attack dice so has no effect theior, if your out in the open, guns will kill you.. it balances out i feel in the long run, at first we all do it for a giggle.

ive only out of like 40-50 games used ramming with my PLA apc 2-3 times effectivly and once with my FAVs (they died in the return fire after bouncing of the armour) we still do stuff like it now and then for a giggle or a suicidal run to try win the game with luck and a prayer.

 

[GhostWolf69]

so anyway is it just me that finds tank ramming is a) silly and b) happens way too much?

I have not read any rules about it, but yes the concept is kinda silly.

I suppose it makes sense though if you ram another vehicle? Who wouldn't want to run straight through those pesky Techies with their Challie?

/wolf

 

[emperorpenguin]

so anyway is it just me that finds tank ramming is a) silly and b) happens way too much?

I have not read any rules about it, but yes the concept is kinda silly.

I suppose it makes sense though if you ram another vehicle? Who wouldn't want to run straight through those pesky Techies with their Challie?

/wolf

it's in the basic rules, the close combat charge

After just a few games I've seen it too much. People realise that 4 D10 attacks are way better than 1 D10 with their gun

 

[The Old Soldier]

You could just make a house rule: Vehicles that CC other vehicles only use the difference in thier size for the number of D10 rolled in CC.

That way smaller vehicles never CC larger ones one, and larger vehicles would get less dice as the size goes up, making the Main gun more valuable against larger targets.

 

[Mr Evil]

it's in the basic rules, the close combat charge

After just a few games I've seen it too much. People realise that 4 D10 attacks are way better than 1 D10 with their gun

well the 2+ save makes it pretty pointless also tanks need to be suported by infantry so why not stick a single guy infront then you force enemy tankk to shoot not charge !

tank gun can instant kill a tank while charge may do a little damage, now against a warrior charges are worth doing but a warrior is better of shooting than charging due to armour modifiers.

just my take on it.

 

[cordas]

ram enemy infantry in cover and they get to move out of the way befor you roll your attack dice so has no effect theior, if your out in the open, guns will kill you.. it balances out i feel in the long run, at first we all do it for a giggle.

ive only out of like 40-50 games used ramming with my PLA apc 2-3 times effectivly and once with my FAVs (they died in the return fire after bouncing of the armour) we still do stuff like it now and then for a giggle or a suicidal run to try win the game with luck and a prayer.

If the infantry move out the way thats their reaction used, and that can be quite handy...

We have only used ramming vehicles once and it didn't do much damage (only 1 failed armour save). Its nice to have there as an option but I don't think it will be a regularly used tactic.

You could just make a house rule: Vehicles that CC other vehicles only use the difference in thier size for the number of D10 rolled in CC.

That i like it does seem bizzare to me that a Hilux or Shadow could successfully ram a Challie and do anything more than scratch the paint work.

 

[weasel_fierce]

Is ramming actually something that any sane tank commander would employ ?

 

[cordas]

Is ramming actually something that any sane tank commander would employ ?

I could see a tank driver running over enemy troops or light vehicles if they got in the way without to many problems, ramming another tank might be a a difficult choice to make but if they where desperate enough I could see them trying, however i don't think 1 tank would ram another as standard practice.

 

[GhostWolf69]

Is ramming actually something that any sane tank commander would employ ?

No.

/wolf

 

[bigtmac68]

After just a few games I've seen it too much. People realise that 4 D10 attacks are way better than 1 D10 with their gun

It should not be. even with just a t-99 ys a challie d10+3 gives a 60% chance to hit, -3 armor save means only 33% chance to save, and you have a 10% chance of an insta kill.

a d10 gives only a 30% chance to hit , 83% chance to save and no chance to insta kill.

4 shots of 1d10 will result on average with 1 hit that has an 83% chance to be saved.

so unless you are doing something wrong, ramming should dissapear very quickly as it is much less effective than shooting

 

[cordas]

After just a few games I've seen it too much. People realise that 4 D10 attacks are way better than 1 D10 with their gun

It should not be. even with just a t-99 ys a challie d10+3 gives a 60% chance to hit, -3 armor save means only 33% chance to save, and you have a 10% chance of an insta kill.

a d10 gives only a 30% chance to hit , 83% chance to save and no chance to insta kill.

4 shots of 1d10 will result on average with 1 hit that has an 83% chance to be saved.

so unless you are doing something wrong, ramming should dissapear very quickly as it is much less effective than shooting

Unless you shoot with your 1st action then ram with subsequent action(s)

 

[bigtmac68]

still poor tactics because
1 your odds of doing anything with a ram are so low (statistically it should take an average of 5-6 rams to kill an MBT from the front)
2, closing to ram distance exposes you to enemy fire from a hull down position.
3 by making the ram charge you give up any chance of a hull down position.

4 by making the ram charge you expose yourself to flank shots by the rest of the enemy force ( especially suicide vs PLA )



Ive never seen anyone ram for any reason other than (oh well im gonna die anyway ) last gasp actions because unless thier opponent is in a horrible position there are allways better options.

If for some strange reason your play group has locked into a demo derby mentality, and the practicallity of better tactics cant pursuade them then I would suggest a house rule that the vehicls cc dice only apply to models with smaller size than the attacking vehicle.

 

[cordas]

To be honest we have only had one game where ramming was used, and by that point the game had already been pretty much decided.