Modern/sci-fi firearms and armour.

[Utgardloki]

I just looked up bulletproof armor on wikipedia, and learned that they do make bulletproof armor that is also designed to protect against slashing weapons. Prison guards wear these.

The military, however, is more interested in protection from bullets and shrapnel. Thus they make different tradeoffs.

I also found out that kevlar armor was introduced in 1975, a fact that is certainly relevant to myself.

Is there a place where I can pick up Greg Porter's fabulous reference material?

 

[atgxtg]

I just looked up bulletproof armor on wikipedia, and learned that they do make bulletproof armor that is also designed to protect against slashing weapons. Prison guards wear these.

The military, however, is more interested in protection from bullets and shrapnel. Thus they make different tradeoffs.

I also found out that kevlar armor was introduced in 1975, a fact that is certainly relevant to myself.

Is there a place where I can pick up Greg Porter's fabulous reference material?

go to http://www.btrc.net. From there you can find links to online stores that sell his stuff, as well as freebies, downlaods and stuff that can give you a good idea of his work.

It's been one of my priamry tools for designing weapons for RPGs since I first got it, waaaayyy back.

BTW, You might want to check out his CORPS RPG. I think it is practiclly what you seem to be trying to reinvent. The Bond game ain't bad for modern day either.

All good resources for a GM trying to work out something. I've been using his bow rules to rework the bow tables for MRQ.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Police issue anti-stab vests tend not to be bullet proof though.

If you wear a stab vest and a bullet proof outer armour you are going to find yourself lacking any mobility at all

And then someone hits you with a metal pipe, a crowbar, or a sledge hammer and it's night night.

Unless you go down the route of separate armour values against slashing, piercing, and crushing weapons then you have to average these out to get the RQ AR.

Archaic armour was pretty good at doing its job, it wouldn't have lasted so long otherwise.
Mail and padding, full plate, even the bigandine and jack of the late medieval period were all good.

Hmm, brigandine. Replace the leather with multilayer kevlar, have ceramic plates in little overlapping pockets...

Anyway, blunt trauma remains the best way to cause damage to an armoured foe, a sword becomes a metal bar when hitting a steel helmet, an axe may as well be a mace. I remember a discovery program explaining why flails (ball and chain) and warhammers/picks were the real killers on the battlefield - along with daggers poked into armour joints etc. :shock:

 

[are]

I may have to use the grimm and gritty damage values when they come out to make this work, but the idea is that wounds don't add, only the most serious (highest damage) counts against your location HP.
I may allow a damage bonus based on number of previous wounds to the location...

I am going to do something similar. I will also use an idea from Hackmaster (tm) - penetration damage, for projectile and impaling weapons only. The idea is that these weapons gives deep wounds, which might be deadly, if they hit the right spot. To simulate this, give them a low initial damage, but if you roll maximum on a damage die (ie. 6 on a d6) you get to roll again and add the extra die to the total. This also allows me to let the initial damage be on a single die (perhaps with adds) making it easier to roll the effects of multiple bullet hits at once.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Now that's a nice idea

 

[Enpeze]

semi-automatic - up to three shots per action, 10% penalty to hit per round fired after the first.

automatic - fires a four round burst, up to three bursts may be fired per action, 20% penalty per burst after the first.

Note that if you use a flurry combat action it becomes possible to conduct what Traveller used to call "panic fire"

You've got to be careful that modern ballistic armour doesn't make melee weapons all but useless - which is somewhat unrealistic.
The combat armour listed is for the lightest suit. Higher TL versions are also available which have higher armour ratings.
Then there's battledress - powered armour :twisted:

Very good firing rules. I think I will try them out in one of my next games. You can vary the weapons and give some of them chrome if you give the "recoil" a different value. Eg recoilless auto-weapons with just -5% per burst. Or cheap slug throwers with -30% per additional burst.
I would too vary the amount of rounds which can be fired by each burst. Eg rapid firing gauss weapons more than 4 and heavy caliber slug throwers fewer.

The only problem I see is that a player with 3 actions has to roll 9 dice per turn for his bursts - not counting the damage rolls. (the last ones of course with just his standard 01-05% chance) Thats alot.

ok now to something completely different - to armor
your new weapon values are very good IMO. But in this case you have to upvalue your armor too, or it will not be that effective. I would it tune in this way that combat armor is able to negate slug throwers of the same techlevel. Eg. TL12? gauss weapon is on your table 3d8+6 which is an average of 19,5 points. So I would design civilan security armor of TL12 with 18 points. Military combat armor even higher for 24 or 26 points so it can counter the most shots of gauss weapons. Its another story that gauss weapons are AP of course. Maybe you introduce special and computer assisted "ceramic layer armor" to counter AP. (only for elite troops and special forces of course)

 

[Sigtrygg]

Good idea for a variety of weapon types.

Gauss weapons in Traveller are only really stopped by combat armour and above, cutting through lesser armour types with relative ease.

The combat armour that appears at the same TL as the gauss rifle would have an armour value of 18.
Higher TL combat armour coud be as much as 24, with battledress higher still.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Oops, forgot to add, gauss rifles can fire a four or a ten round burst.

When you fire a burst at a target roll a die equal to the burst size for the number of rounds that hit.

So for a four round burst roll a d4, for a ten round burst roll a d10.

 

[Enpeze]

Good idea for a variety of weapon types.

Gauss weapons in Traveller are only really stopped by combat armour and above, cutting through lesser armour types with relative ease.

The combat armour that appears at the same TL as the gauss rifle would have an armour value of 18.
Higher TL combat armour coud be as much as 24, with battledress higher still.

The question is if the efficiency of the gauss weapon to cut through armor is because of its damage value or just because of its AP feature?
With 18 point for civilian armor and an average 19,5 points but AP ability in average 10,5 damage is going through the armor per shot. quite nasty or? It should simulate the typical wanted gauss feature of "cutting through armor".

Military combat armor is another story. If you use 26 points for standard military armor (no anti-AP layer) then a gauss weapon with 19,5 average damage does go through with 6,5 points per shot which is often enough to incapacitate the wearer on this hitlocation.

If you use military combat armor with anti AP layer, then the whole thing changes alot of course.

Battledress also This I would design to withstand light AT weapons on a average base. Eg a light man portable AT TL10 rocket (aka high tech bazooka) has a damage value of 2d20+30 and is of course AP. (1d20 because I like the die and its cool to use it for damage too )

Its military use is for penetrating smaller armored vehicles or heavy armoured infantrists. Its average damage is 52 points. So I would design a battledress TL10 with 50 points and anti AP layer. Cheaper version are of course without AP layer (which can be very devastating, see below)

This means that an armored infantrist has the chance to survive against a bazooka because only 2 damage goes through. But he can also die very fast if you roll more than average with your 2d20.

If the government has choosen the cheap version of the battle dress (without AP layer) the armored infantrist has nearly no chance to survive the hit, because of the high fixed damage of 30 points.

 

[atgxtg]

I may have to use the grimm and gritty damage values when they come out to make this work, but the idea is that wounds don't add, only the most serious (highest damage) counts against your location HP.
I may allow a damage bonus based on number of previous wounds to the location...

I am going to do something similar. I will also use an idea from Hackmaster (tm) - penetration damage, for projectile and impaling weapons only. The idea is that these weapons gives deep wounds, which might be deadly, if they hit the right spot. To simulate this, give them a low initial damage, but if you roll maximum on a damage die (ie. 6 on a d6) you get to roll again and add the extra die to the total. This also allows me to let the initial damage be on a single die (perhaps with adds) making it easier to roll the effects of multiple bullet hits at once.

Very similar to the orginal RQ impaling rules. In RQ2 when you got an implae you did max damage pluss rolled.

 

[atgxtg]

Oops, forgot to add, gauss rifles can fire a four or a ten round burst.

When you fire a burst at a target roll a die equal to the burst size for the number of rounds that hit.

So for a four round burst roll a d4, for a ten round burst roll a d10.

I take it that when firing a burst, only the first shot can get the benefit of a critical?

 

[Rurik]

Oops, forgot to add, gauss rifles can fire a four or a ten round burst.

When you fire a burst at a target roll a die equal to the burst size for the number of rounds that hit.

So for a four round burst roll a d4, for a ten round burst roll a d10.

I take it that when firing a burst, only the first shot can get the benefit of a critical?

Perhaps a critical could have a different meaning with a burst, such as landing a majority of shots on target, such as 1d2+2 for a 4 round burst and 1d6+4 for a 10 round burst.

For an optional realism rule the burst number of hits could be different based on range too. At long range landing 1d2 and 1d6 or 1d4 respectively. It would be all but impossible to put a 10 round burst all on a man size target at range.

 

[atgxtg]

Perhaps a critical could have a different meaning with a burst, such as landing a majority of shots on target, such as 1d2+2 for a 4 round burst and 1d6+4 for a 10 round burst.

For an optional realism rule the burst number of hits could be different based on range too. At long range landing 1d2 and 1d6 or 1d4 respectively. It would be all but impossible to put a 10 round burst all on a man size target at range.

I like! How about at long range you roll number of hits twice and take the lowest result?

WE could do the opposite for criticals, roll twice and take the best result.

That woul also make hero points effective vs burst attacks. If you are at 150m and the guy hits for 1d12 rounds and rolls double 12's, you can spend an HP for a reroll.

 

[Rurik]

I like! How about at long range you roll number of hits twice and take the lowest result?

WE could do the opposite for criticals, roll twice and take the best result.

That woul also make hero points effective vs burst attacks. If you are at 150m and the guy hits for 1d12 rounds and rolls double 12's, you can spend an HP for a reroll.

That could work and is simple. I like it.

I had another mechanic I will throw out for Autofire, say for every X points you make your roll by 1 round hits.

For example, at short range 1 round hits for every 10 you roll under your skill, medium range 1 round for every 20, and at long 1 round for every 30. So if your skill is 80, and you roll a 33 at medium range, 3 rounds hit.

This also encourages short, controlled bursts, especially at long range, which is realistic.

A bit mathy but a good mechanic for those who don't mind that.

 

[atgxtg]

I lik e that rule. Even when I first saw in in some other RPGs. OF couse it doesn work with my multiple die idea, but nothing is perfect. :wink:

For ease of use, simplicity X could 10, or possible varry by range.

MAybe: 1/10th range X=10
Effective Range: x=20
Maximum Range: X=50

Or some such. We could also assign X by recoil, and then use 2x or 4x at different ranges.


Since RQ doesn't vary hit% bvy range except for effective/max, we will be seeing more hits @ 100m that expected, but

 

[Rurik]

I like the recoil by weapon and range multiplier Idea a lot.

Does kinda kill our die roll ideas from earlier. Those could be used for a simpler system.

Two ranges works fine for RQ with primitive weapons, but any modern firearms rules would need at least three range categories IMHO.

Maybe 2 for the simpler die roll system is ok, but when trying for more realism it just doesn't cut it.

 

[atgxtg]

I like the recoil by weapon and range multiplier Idea a lot.

Does kinda kill our die roll ideas from earlier. Those could be used for a simpler system.

Two ranges works fine for RQ with primitive weapons, but any modern firearms rules would need at least three range categories IMHO.

Maybe 2 for the simpler die roll system is ok, but when trying for more realism it just doesn't cut it.

We could just use 1/2 effective range as a range. Possibly add in a special rule for point blanks shots/7m or less (or DEX in feet or DEX/3 in meters).

 

[Utgardloki]

Perhaps a system could be used where there is a basic range, such as 5 -10 meters for pistols (depending on the type), and then for each multiple a penalty is assigned to hit. This is the way I've been doing in D20.

For example, I had a case once where a PC tried to shoot at a mob of zombies from about 160 feet away. At a cumulative -2 for every 25 feet, that worked out to a -14 penalty to hit. It's probably being generous, but it would allow bragging rights to PCs who can shoot the ears off a fly at 100 paces.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I take it that when firing a burst, only the first shot can get the benefit of a critical?

I have a critical with a burst hit with all rounds, but they all have to roll for damage as normal.

 

[Sigtrygg]

For an optional realism rule the burst number of hits could be different based on range too. At long range landing 1d2 and 1d6 or 1d4 respectively. It would be all but impossible to put a 10 round burst all on a man size target at range.

Hmm, I like this idea