Missile Launch rate... revisit?
- Thread starter Nerhesi
- Start date
Nerhesi said:Also very easy to explain.
"Due to advanced evasion procedures and improved armour casing, Torpedos require a 10+ blah blah"
It can be chalked up to other things above an beyond armour
yes, yes it is
just tweak the wording to take into account, random variations in flight pattern, automated evasion subroutines, built in jammers as well as an armored casing. so no "super armor" or pinpoint black globes, to grate on anyones nerves.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Fratricide; too many launching at once disturbs guidance.
Too many converging at once, the explosions knock the others off course or destroy them.
Too many converging at once, the explosions knock the others off course or destroy them.
Condottiere said:
It's way to easy to stagger your launches and avoid this. You could launch a few seconds after each other and fix that problem, or stagger launches from multiple launchers. In either case it's a trivial issue to overcome and shouldn't have any impact on missile launches.
phavoc said:
But then.. what if I, smart-pilot-genius that is being targetted, use my maneuvering to group the missiles after launch! thereby closing the distance between them.. and then... PEWPEW!!!
Donezo - fratricide!
*dodging virtual rotten fruit, beer mugs, and the like*
At the moment... I am am willing to be argued against
I have made it so that torps halve any successful Effect (round down) on PD - no harder to hit, but you are going to have a lot less chance to stop them.
That will probably work. Now the controversial bit
Armoured torps (and I am not completely convinced we need them, but they may be fun) deduct an additional 1D from the Effect of PD.
Opinions?
I have made it so that torps halve any successful Effect (round down) on PD - no harder to hit, but you are going to have a lot less chance to stop them.
That will probably work. Now the controversial bit
Armoured torps (and I am not completely convinced we need them, but they may be fun) deduct an additional 1D from the Effect of PD.
Opinions?
Annatar Giftbringer
Emperor Mongoose
Question on armoured torpedoes:
Will they trade damage for armour, or are they just as efficient as normal torps, on top of being harder to shoot down?
Regarding the suggested PD against torpedoes... I guess it could work. Makes sense that a laser has to fire longer to destroy a torpedo than a missile.
Halving and rounding down means that skill 2 gunner defending with a triple turret and rolling 7 (average) shoots down 3 missiles or one torpedo, right?
Will they trade damage for armour, or are they just as efficient as normal torps, on top of being harder to shoot down?
Regarding the suggested PD against torpedoes... I guess it could work. Makes sense that a laser has to fire longer to destroy a torpedo than a missile.
Halving and rounding down means that skill 2 gunner defending with a triple turret and rolling 7 (average) shoots down 3 missiles or one torpedo, right?
Annatar Giftbringer said:
They are more expensive.
Annatar Giftbringer
Emperor Mongoose
Hang on... Armoured torpedoes reduce the effect by -1D? No. Even at -1 they're very hard to shoot down, unless I missed something in my previous example, where average rolling meant 3 missiles or 1 torpedo. -1 would mean that, on average, armoured torpedoes won't get shot down by defensive triple turrets. -1D practically guarantees they won't get shot down, ever... Do we want them that dangerous? Or am I missing something (very possible that I am^^) ?
Good question.
Remembering EW is just as effective on torps as it is on missiles (perhaps more so, as torps require greater tonnage/will be coming in with smaller numbers), it might just be they need that extra punch at the end - and also remembering that both sides will be trying to swing the averages in their favour...
Remembering EW is just as effective on torps as it is on missiles (perhaps more so, as torps require greater tonnage/will be coming in with smaller numbers), it might just be they need that extra punch at the end - and also remembering that both sides will be trying to swing the averages in their favour...
Annatar Giftbringer
Emperor Mongoose
Good point regarding EW, didn't think of that. It will, as you say, be more effective against torpedoes due to smaller salvoes.
I haven't quite caught up with the latest version of point-defense batteries, and large-scale combat in general, so as far as I know perhaps it evens out when the big ships start throwing stuff at each other?
All I see now (from my limited PoV) is that torpedoes are very lethal against small/adventure class ships, but aside from the risk of killing all the players with a single shot, maybe there's nothing wrong with that..?
I mean, launch a torpedo against a boat/small ship without dedicated anti-torpedo defense today and it will get destroyed.
I haven't quite caught up with the latest version of point-defense batteries, and large-scale combat in general, so as far as I know perhaps it evens out when the big ships start throwing stuff at each other?
All I see now (from my limited PoV) is that torpedoes are very lethal against small/adventure class ships, but aside from the risk of killing all the players with a single shot, maybe there's nothing wrong with that..?
I mean, launch a torpedo against a boat/small ship without dedicated anti-torpedo defense today and it will get destroyed.
Annatar Giftbringer said:
This is true - but probably worth keeping an eye on in the next update
As far as EW goes, who gets to choose which ones to remove from a mixed torpedo/missile salvo? As I would read the rules as stated, if a single ship fires both missiles and torpedoes at a target, then it's considered a single salvo for that turn. So then a smart player will always ensure they have missiles to remove from a torpedo salvo to do max damage.
As far as PD goes, I'm not a huge fan of "armored" torpedo designation... it's like you need to hit the hull physically and the armor is meant to penetrate. I think it would be better to have a different label (enhanced maybe?) with a change in the description that provides an ablative covering to make PD less effective. Ablative armor is already standard with smaller weapons. And for the better defense, simply require TWO PD hits on 'enhanced' torps to reflect their, dare I say it... reflectiveness?
As far as PD goes, I'm not a huge fan of "armored" torpedo designation... it's like you need to hit the hull physically and the armor is meant to penetrate. I think it would be better to have a different label (enhanced maybe?) with a change in the description that provides an ablative covering to make PD less effective. Ablative armor is already standard with smaller weapons. And for the better defense, simply require TWO PD hits on 'enhanced' torps to reflect their, dare I say it... reflectiveness?
P162 of Core - different types of missiles are different salvoes.
Pg 161 of CRB:
Missiles are launched in salvos. A salvo is all the missiles launched by a ship against a single target in the same combat round. This could be a single missile from one turret or dozens from multiple turrets or bays (see High Guard for more information on weapon bays).
Pg 162 of CRB:
Variant Missiles - High Guard introduces different types if missiles that are more accurate, carry more fuel or are faster, but these rules suit all missiles included in this Core Rulebook. If a ship launches different types of missile at the same target in the same round, then all the missiles of each type are counted as a different salvo.
Under this scenario, then torpedoes, or even a variation on a standard missile would be counted as a separate salvo. While you would lose your positive DM by grouping missiles up, you would also force your opponent to choose which missile, or torpedo salvo they are going to try to use EW on. Say a 400 ton ship had four triple missile turrets firing four different types of missiles, that would count as four separate salvo's, correct?
And from a point defense perspective, pg 160 of CRB
The gunner must succeed at a Gunner (turret) check against any missile salvo that is about to make its attack roll against his spacecraft. The Effect of the check will remove that many missiles from the salvo. A double turret equipped with lasers provides DM+1 to this check, while a triple turret will provide DM+2
Using our example above, the attacking player launches four salvo's of three missiles each. The defending player can engage one salvo per turn with EW, and when the salvo arrives at his ship he can engage one salvo per turret he has set aside for defense.
I can see players mixing up expensive specialized missiles with standard ones, kind of like Stratego - you don't know what's going to hit you till it hits you and does damage, and mixing up your missile types will force the defending player to engage different types of missiles - he best hope he gets the deadlier ones first.
As an aside, the description on variant missiles should have been grouped with the missile explanation. Page 162 is changing what was defined on page 161.
Missiles are launched in salvos. A salvo is all the missiles launched by a ship against a single target in the same combat round. This could be a single missile from one turret or dozens from multiple turrets or bays (see High Guard for more information on weapon bays).
Pg 162 of CRB:
Variant Missiles - High Guard introduces different types if missiles that are more accurate, carry more fuel or are faster, but these rules suit all missiles included in this Core Rulebook. If a ship launches different types of missile at the same target in the same round, then all the missiles of each type are counted as a different salvo.
Under this scenario, then torpedoes, or even a variation on a standard missile would be counted as a separate salvo. While you would lose your positive DM by grouping missiles up, you would also force your opponent to choose which missile, or torpedo salvo they are going to try to use EW on. Say a 400 ton ship had four triple missile turrets firing four different types of missiles, that would count as four separate salvo's, correct?
And from a point defense perspective, pg 160 of CRB
The gunner must succeed at a Gunner (turret) check against any missile salvo that is about to make its attack roll against his spacecraft. The Effect of the check will remove that many missiles from the salvo. A double turret equipped with lasers provides DM+1 to this check, while a triple turret will provide DM+2
Using our example above, the attacking player launches four salvo's of three missiles each. The defending player can engage one salvo per turn with EW, and when the salvo arrives at his ship he can engage one salvo per turret he has set aside for defense.
I can see players mixing up expensive specialized missiles with standard ones, kind of like Stratego - you don't know what's going to hit you till it hits you and does damage, and mixing up your missile types will force the defending player to engage different types of missiles - he best hope he gets the deadlier ones first.
As an aside, the description on variant missiles should have been grouped with the missile explanation. Page 162 is changing what was defined on page 161.
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