Misjumps and fuel question.

[chip_crawford]

So lets say the players misjump to a hex without a system.

How do they refuel the ship to get back without a body of water or a gas giant?

Can fuel scoops pull fuel out of normal space?

 

[Custodian]

Space is never entirely empty so fuel scoops might pick up something but it would very poor pickings indeed. It would be a bit like trying to build a wooden bridge only from matchsticks that you find on the street.

I think a ship's best hope would be be get as much fuel as possible from the ship itself as creatively as possible - being prepared to sacrificed almost everything to provide whatever fuel can be scrounged.

Custodian

 

[chip_crawford]

I'm actually surprised this doesn't happen more often. There are a lot of empty hexes, and most ships I've seen only have fuel for 1 jump.

I'm trying to figure out how this doesn't kill the party before it happens to them.

 

[Dave Chase]

Gravity wells (100D from planets, sun or other ships) will cause misjump or will cause the Jump to abort. (Careful, lots of flame wars over this and even in the T5 playtest this is a hot one.)

Basically, you can decide where the players come out at.

Assumially, only crossing a gravity well will cause a misjump ship to come out of Jump (if stuck in one) or where ever the GM decides.

I would be very upset as a player if the GM made us misjump into a dead zone (empty hex) with out some sort of way to get back home even if it is extreme like lowberthing it and setting the ship on autopilot for the next 50 years at 6G (or 1G depending on your ship)

Dave Chase

 

[GypsyComet]

Has Mongoose published the usual collection of misjump death sentences? I looked a while back and didn't see it.

I did have a group misjump and decided to do the "longjump" option. They ended up halfway across the sector, one parsec from being OUT of the sector but in an empty hex. Since killing everyone or doing the "cold berth fast forward" wasn't what I was looking for, I drifted them a hex sideways to an occupied hex.

We've "discussed" empty hexes here before, though hardly to a consensus result. I tend to go with there being enough flotsam around between systems that a stranded ship can probably find *something*, though it may be touch and go with the available fuel, especially if the ship doesn't have very good sensors.

This is one of the areas of detail where the simpler approach to ship design in Mongoose Traveller gets in the way of survival solutions. While solar cells are available in MGT, several earlier editions provided for much longer powerplant fuel durations, or allowed a powerplant to be run at a much lower output so that cold berths and acceleration were an option.

 

[EDG]

Basically, you're the GM - screw the rules. Don't let a misjump happen unless you have a scenario centred on that event that is ready to go. Maybe it's just my style of GMing, but I'm buggered if I'm going to let a stupid dice roll tell me what adventure I'm running for a group, and I am certainly not going to let a dice roll kill the whole group due to something they have no control over.

If you want ideas, say they jumped out near an uncharted brown dwarf (as it is, all the "empty hexes" should have brown dwarfs or wandering planets in them anyway). Fortunately it has moons with ice on them that can be tapped for fuel (though if they don't have any fuel refiners on board, they still might misjump...). And throw in a weird mystery - ruins, an abandoned base, etc.

 

[Custodian]

As a referee who thinks misjumps in empty hexes might be common you are within your rights to have various organisations place habitats or fuel drops with a beacon, so ships can find it. Think of them like well-stocked mountain hut refuges in dangerous, isolated areas.

There may also be some scientific value in conducting research well away from major gravity wells or even the odd hermit!

Otherwise empty hexes might even be worth investigating for salvage from time to time. Someone might be very grateful if you rescue them.

 

[Charakan]

Basically, you're the GM - screw the rules. Don't let a misjump happen unless you have a scenario centred on that event that is ready to go. Maybe it's just my style of GMing, but I'm buggered if I'm going to let a stupid dice roll tell me what adventure I'm running for a group, and I am certainly not going to let a dice roll kill the whole group due to something they have no control over.

If you want ideas, say they jumped out near an uncharted brown dwarf (as it is, all the "empty hexes" should have brown dwarfs or wandering planets in them anyway). Fortunately it has moons with ice on them that can be tapped for fuel (though if they don't have any fuel refiners on board, they still might misjump...). And throw in a weird mystery - ruins, an abandoned base, etc.

I have to agree with EDG on this, unless the plot calls for it the misjump didn't happen as far as I'm concerned, I always wondered if it would be possible to tap a wandering comet or something similar for fuel since it would be mostly ice, maybe someone could enlighten me?

 

[EDG]

I always wondered if it would be possible to tap a wandering comet or something similar for fuel since it would be mostly ice, maybe someone could enlighten me?

If it's far from a star (or in interstellar space) and inert then it's possible - plenty of hydrogen locked up in the methane and ammonia ices as well as in water ice. Though it'd be unrefined fuel, and you'd have to watch out for outgassing or causing eruptions because of engine/ship heat.

Trying to tap a comet that's close to a star (and merrily outgassing and erupting in the process) would be somewhat suicidal though.

 

[The Chef]

Thanks EDG, i've been having in my mind the idea of a scout campaign that takles these issues, and i was going to ask about refueling from passing comets.

Chef

 

[GypsyComet]

The question of comet and Oort refueling came up some years ago on the TML, and the result was a device called a "Mosquito". Easily modeled in MGT by installing the grappler arm from High Guard and having fuel purification gear in the ship, the Mosquito allows the ship and its heat to stand off of an icy body and "mine" it for volatiles.

If you are a kind Ref, you can allow PCs to jury-rig a Mosquito from parts on-hand, even including parts from the "assumed-to-be-there-but-never-stated" fuel handling systems all ships need. Of course, the PC will need to put that all back where they found it if they want to jump, since its what handles fuel flow to the drives, but knowing that they can *DO* something as opposed to simply freeze, starve, and suffocate in the blackness between stars is a great morale booster for PCs.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I always used the "rogue planet" or "Brown Dwarf" or even "Star without planets" scenario for any empty hexes that players happened to misjump into.

Even a star without planets will still have a few comets and other debris that can be mined for volitiles (fuel). While the hex is actually a cubic parsec in size (or at least a square parsec), any ship will naturally tend to emerge near a gravity well (that's my story and I'm sticking to it).

Putting fuel dumps in empty hexes just so misjumped ships can use them is not really going to work. You would need THOUSANDS of fuel drop to cover the huge amount of space within even a single hex.

 

[Pyromancer]

You only misjump if your roll is negative, so even untrained (DM-3) you have to roll really, really bad for it to happen.

So, IMTU, misjumps are really uncommon, and in less civilised areas like the Marches, if you end up in an empty hex without fuel, you don't get out of it without help, at least not quick.
A Navy patrol will check on an empty hex every other month or so if you are within the Empire. If your are lucky, they arrive in time. If you are outside the Empire, your best hope is to accelerate towards the nearest system and coldfreeze yourself. Eventually, someone will find you - it might take a hundred years or five, though.

 

[Custodian]

Putting fuel dumps in empty hexes just so misjumped ships can use them is not really going to work. You would need THOUSANDS of fuel drop to cover the huge amount of space within even a single hex.

This depends on whether misjumps into a given hex are prone to appear in a number of "sweet spots", given the "topology" of the real space there,

The rules have always suggested that there is some kind of interaction between the real space at both jump starting points (don't jump too near to gravity wells) and where you arrive (you're often in certain typical places within a system).

I think that any jump into any hex is likely to insert insert you into typical locations and research, backed up by a high enough tech level, is probably going to be able to help make those predictions.

Besides I only suggested them if a referee felt misjumps could be a common thing in their universe - such as the orginal poster.

Good ideas there on other empty hex solutions BTW.

 

[DCAnsell]

You only misjump if your roll is negative, so even untrained (DM-3) you have to roll really, really bad for it to happen.

So, IMTU, misjumps are really uncommon, and in less civilised areas like the Marches, if you end up in an empty hex without fuel, you don't get out of it without help, at least not quick.
A Navy patrol will check on an empty hex every other month or so if you are within the Empire. If your are lucky, they arrive in time. If you are outside the Empire, your best hope is to accelerate towards the nearest system and coldfreeze yourself. Eventually, someone will find you - it might take a hundred years or five, though.

That's a lot of empty space to patrol regularly. I think it would be more likely that if its empty space, its really up to you to rescue yourself.

 

[Pyromancer]

That's a lot of empty space to patrol regularly.

That's why the Navy only shows up every other month or so. Jump in in a spread out pattern, run the scanners at full power for a week or two, jump out.

You have to check the empty hexes within your borders regulary. All kinds of nasty things might settle in there otherwise! Things like pirates or Zho fleets! And it's the perfect assignment for first time commanders and people you can't kick out but want to get rid of anyway.

 

[DCAnsell]

That's a lot of empty space to patrol regularly.

That's why the Navy only shows up every other month or so. Jump in in a spread out pattern, run the scanners at full power for a week or two, jump out.

You have to check the empty hexes within your borders regulary. All kinds of nasty things might settle in there otherwise! Things like pirates or Zho fleets! And it's the perfect assignment for first time commanders and people you can't kick out but want to get rid of anyway.

You'd want to keep the best eye you could, certainly. And I'm not usually the guy to argue practicality. But each empty hex is 3.25 LY across, a staggering volume of space for even hundreds of ships to search. If you'd surveyed the volume, and knew about something like a rogue planet or brown dwarf, sure a patrol might show up to check it out periodically, but I'm skeptical about how often the navy is going to send even light patrol forces 'out into the void.'

 

[kristof65]

Others have said it in various forms, but I'll say it again.

The PCs might just be ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances, however, they do have a story to tell. While fascinating stories do sometimes end in mystery and death, the most fascinating stories usually have survivors - hence, the PCs should always have a way out of a bad situation thats fun for both the Players and you.

Therefore, as a GM, handle the misjumps in a way that best serves your story - even if it means you completely ignore the dice.

 

[EDG]

That's a lot of empty space to patrol regularly.

That's why the Navy only shows up every other month or so. Jump in in a spread out pattern, run the scanners at full power for a week or two, jump out.

Bit of perspective here. I read in a news article the other day that navies can't keep track of every pirate incident going on off the coast of Somalia right now - and that's a vastly smaller volume to cover than 1 cubic parsec of space, which is about 27 cubic lightyears. The probability of any Search & Rescue ship being located anywhere near a stranded vessel purely by chance in an empty hex - even close enough to detect them with scanners - is astronomically remote at best. I don't think people really understand just how vast than volume is - it's probably comparable to finding a specific atom in a haystack, never mind a needle.

 

[GypsyComet]

I could see a Navy ship or two heading out to just listen, the idea being that active scanning is hugely limited in range compared to the volume of space, but heading out to listen for errant signals can potentially "cover" a much larger area.

So the trick is to teach your civies to do the right things to get noticed if they get stranded. If they can tell they're in an area that gets "regular" sweeps, then they want to be loud and bright even if they also go into hibernation and thrust for the nearest star.

If they are in an area with no deep sweeps, they're on their own.