MgT HG 2e Gionetti Class CL Triple Turret (Beam Laser, accurate, high yield) cost

[snrdg121408]

Morning PST,

Checking the data on the ship record sheet for the Gionetti Class CL Triple Turret (Beam Laser, accurate, high yield) on p. 176 my numbers do not come close for the listed cost of MCr157.5 for the 50 installed turrets.

MCr157.5/50 = One Triple Turret (Beam Laser, accurate , high yield) = MCr3.15

TL 10 Triple Turret (Beam Laser) MCr2.5 = Turret cost MCr1.0 + 3 x Beam Laser MCr0.5 = Turret MCr1.0 + Beam Laser Total cost MCr1.5.

The cost of the Gionetti one Triple Turret (Beam Laser, accurate , high yield) is 3.15/2.5 = 1.26 times more than the standard Triple Turret (Beam Laser) mounted on seven hulls prior to the Gionetti

The addition of accurate and high yield indicate that the Triple Turret (Beam Laser) is using the the Primitive and Advanced (P&A) Spacecraft rules.

Test Calculation 1:

Triple Turret Cost: MCr1.0
Total cost 3xTL 10 Beam Laser = MCr0.5 x 3 = MCr1.5
P&A Options: Selecting Accurate and High Yield are advantages making options for the beam lasers to be Advanced, Very Advanced, or High Technology.
The Accurate option requires 2 Advantages which means selecting an additional advantage which is High Yield.

Based on the two listed advantages my conclusion is that the Beam Laser's TL is 11 and has the cost increased by 10%.
A TL 11 Beam Laser has a cost of MCr0.5 + (MCr0.5 x .1) = MCr0.5 + MCr0.05 = MCr0.55.
Three TL Beam Lasers have a cost of MCr0.55 x 3 = MCr1.65.

One TL 11 Triple Turret (Beam Laser, accurate, high yield) cost = Turret MCr1.00 + 3 x Beam Laser MCr1.65 = MCr2.65

50 x TL 11 Triple Turret (Beam Laser, accurate, high yield) MCr2.65 = MCr132.5

Test Calculation 2:

Triple Turret Cost = MCr1.0
Total cost 3xTL 10 Beam Laser = MCr0.5 x 3 = MCr1.5
Advanced Weapon Cost Modifier = 10%

Turret Cost MCr1.0 + 3x Beam Laser total cost = MCr2.5
Advanced Weapon Cost: MCr2.5 x 0.1 = MCr0.25

One TL 11 Triple Turret (Beam Laser, accurate, high yield) cost = MCr2.75

50 x TL 11 Triple Turret (Beam Laser, accurate, high yield) MCr2.75 = MCr137.5

Test Calculation 3:
My next try was doubling the Advanced Cost Mod for the two selected going from 10% to 20%

Triple Turret Cost = MCr1.0
Total cost 3xTL 10 Beam Laser = MCr0.5 x 3 = MCr1.5
Advanced Weapon Cost Modifier = 10%

Turret Cost MCr1.0 + 3x Beam Laser total cost = MCr2.5
Advanced Weapon Cost: MCr2.5 x 0.2 = MCr0.5

One TL 11 Triple Turret (Beam Laser, accurate, high yield) cost = MCr3

50 x TL 11 Triple Turret (Beam Laser, accurate, high yield) MCr2.75 = MCr150

In Test Calculation 1 I believe I was following the implied method for applying the Primitive and Advanced Spacecraft options, unfortunately none of my attempts match the cost of MCr157.5.

Did I follow the implied method for applying the Primitive and Advanced Spacecraft options?

If I am missing the method could someone please step through the process?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

A triple turret (MCr 1) with 3 beam lasers (3 × MCr 0.5): Base cost = 1 + 3 × 0.5 = MCr 2.5

This is a TL10 component. At TL 13+ we can give it 3 advantages, e.g. Accurate + High Yield, making it a TL 13 component. 3 advantages cost an additional 50% of base price.

Final cost = Base Price × 150% = 2.5 × 150% = MCr 3.75

 

[AndrewW]

Final cost = Base Price × 150% = 2.5 × 150% = MCr 3.75

Correct.

Note, there are some updates to the existing ships, but they haven't made it into the PDF yet (including this one). The total should be MCr187.5.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello AnotherDilbert and AndrewW,

How do you know that the Beam Laser is TL 13 when there are two advantages listed?

Based on the example from the post dated Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:26 pm I think the process goes as follows:

TL 10 Beam Laser weapon was modified using the Primitive and Advanced Spacecraft options pp. 48-49.

The Gionetti's Beam Laser has the modifications of Accurate and High yield by checking the Prototype/Advanced Table p. 48 and Weapon & Screen Advantages/Disadvantages list p. 49 the following information appears to apply.

The two modifications of Accurate and High Yield could make the weapon an early prototype or a very advanced weapon. The Weapon & Screen Advantages/Disadvantages list reveals that the two modifications are weapon advantages making the weapon at least very advanced.

Looking at the Accurate Modification the weapon gains DM+1 to all attack rolls and requires two Advantages.

From the example on the post dated Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:26 pm the Accurate modification "requires two Advantages" means the weapon goes two High Technology and requires 3 Advantages to be selected.

In response the High Yield Modification was selected and on the weapon's damage roll any 1's rolled are counted as 2's making the modification the second of the three required.

What is the third Weapon Modification Advantage?

My guess is that the designer used "Where the referee deems appropriate, the same Advantage or Disadvantage can be applied more than once to a component." and increased the Accurate Modification from DM+1 to DM+2 meeting the third Advantage requirement.

Going to the Turret Weapons Table p. 25 a TL 9 triple turret has a base cost of MCr1.0 and a TL 10 Beam Laser has a base cost of MCr0.5. The Prototype/Advanced Table p. 48 indicates that the cost is increased by 50%.

The standard TL 9 triple turret with a cost of MCr1.0 becomes a High Technology TL 12 triple turret with a cost of MCr1.0 x 1.5 = MCr1.5.

The standard TL 10 Beam Laser with a cost of MCr0.5 becomes a High Technology TL 13 Beam Laser with a cost of MCr0.5 x 1.5 = MCr0.75. Three TL 13 Beam Laser cost 3 x MCr0.75 = MCr2.25.

One TL 12 Triple Turret MCr1.5 + three TL 13 Beam Lasers MCr2.25 = MCr3.75

Mounting 50 TL 12 Triple Turrets (Beam Laser TL 13, accurate, high yield) MCr3.75 = 50 x 3.75 = MCr187.5

Am I now catching on to how the Primitive and Advanced Spacecraft options are supposed to be applied?

Obviously, I missed how to apply the "requires two Advantages" and thank you for the example.

When will the PDF be updated or will I have to purchase a new hard copy or new PDF?

 

[AndrewW]

Accurate uses two advantages so a TL10 weapon using just accurate would become a TL12 Very Advanced weapon. Then adding in High Yield would make it a TL13 High Technology weapon. As Accurate uses two advantages and you can only go up to High Technology and get a total of 3 advantages it would not be possible to take Accurate twice. That is by the rules, one is of course free to do whatever they wish for their own game.

When will the PDF be updated or will I have to purchase a new hard copy or new PDF?

No idea on the time frame for an updated PDF.

 

[snrdg121408]

Hello AndrewW,

Accurate uses two advantages so a TL10 weapon using just accurate would become a TL12 Very Advanced weapon. Then adding in High Yield would make it a TL13 High Technology weapon. As Accurate uses two advantages and you can only go up to High Technology and get a total of 3 advantages it would not be possible to take Accurate twice. That is by the rules, one is of course free to do whatever they wish for their own game.

When will the PDF be updated or will I have to purchase a new hard copy or new PDF?

No idea on the time frame for an updated PDF.

Thank you for the clarification and I obviously not very good at reading the rules since I am so far out to lunch. Now to make changes to the spreadsheets.

On a related note Where can I find the complete information for the example individual ships' weapons like crew, damage, range, traits, and anything else about the weapon.

I think one thing that might have helped me figure out how to apply the Primitive and Advanced Spacecraft options pp. 48-49, probably not with my luck, would have been to listing the beam laser as TL 13.

Update 1442 PST:
I am trying to learn the rules as written in my copy of MgT books, unfortunately I seem to be failing more often than not.

 

[AndrewW]

On a related note Where can I find the complete information for the example individual ships' weapons like crew, damage, range, traits, and anything else about the weapon.

Just what's in High Guard, isn't anymore specifics.

I am trying to learn the rules as written in my copy of MgT books, unfortunately I seem to be failing more often than not.

No problem, when you have questions feel free to ask.

 

[snrdg121408]

Evening PST AndrewW

On a related note Where can I find the complete information for the example individual ships' weapons like crew, damage, range, traits, and anything else about the weapon.

Just what's in High Guard, isn't anymore specifics.

I am trying to learn the rules as written in my copy of MgT books, unfortunately I seem to be failing more often than not.

No problem, when you have questions feel free to ask.

I was hoping for a different answer and I have a bad feeling that I am going to run into problems verifying the crew, power, and running costs requirements.

I do ask questions when I run into trouble which is more frequent than I like.