GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
That would be accomplished by an armor degradation rule, I think.
Matter Disintegrators
- Thread starter daryen
- Start date
Iron Guardian
Mongoose
In my opinion, I would view these "disintegrators" as essentially Ancients "antiques," like early wheellocks/flintlocks are to gauss rifles. Since these versions are TL 17 -19 or so, and Ancients Technology was above 21 (or TL35 roughly according to the original Secrets of the Ancients book from GDW back in the '80s), there could be more powerful and energy efficient versions equivalent to Star Trek phasers. Of course with those kind of weapons around, they make most armor useless and combat very, very quick and deadly -- plus there will be a huge surge in Dex Augment sales to boot (I SMELL INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY!). 
Also, in regards to all the threads regarding these questionable technologies and whatnot ("cold" sleep, Psionics, ideas borrowed from Star Wars, Star Trek, WH40K, etc.), I tend to see as amusing and pointless (though there are those who more dead serious...), I mean, "WE ARE GAMERS!" We like to tinker, modify, adapt, discard, and ignore at our pleasure. On the flip side, it seems we are also argumentative lot which a lot of times to me just seems a waste of time, but I suppose some just love to argue for the sake of arguing. For threads like these, I would rather just see people answer the question posed and save the debate on such things merits for another thread. Sorry to vent, just been needing some release over the "hand-shields" debate my group has been having and has subsequently led to a another thread on this forum -- which has also been getting more venting on the merits of the CSC then in any attempt to resolve the issue. I appreciate attempts at humor, but I do wish there more serious advice in dealing with such issues like some people did on this thread. :| :roll:
Also, in regards to all the threads regarding these questionable technologies and whatnot ("cold" sleep, Psionics, ideas borrowed from Star Wars, Star Trek, WH40K, etc.), I tend to see as amusing and pointless (though there are those who more dead serious...), I mean, "WE ARE GAMERS!" We like to tinker, modify, adapt, discard, and ignore at our pleasure. On the flip side, it seems we are also argumentative lot which a lot of times to me just seems a waste of time, but I suppose some just love to argue for the sake of arguing. For threads like these, I would rather just see people answer the question posed and save the debate on such things merits for another thread. Sorry to vent, just been needing some release over the "hand-shields" debate my group has been having and has subsequently led to a another thread on this forum -- which has also been getting more venting on the merits of the CSC then in any attempt to resolve the issue. I appreciate attempts at humor, but I do wish there more serious advice in dealing with such issues like some people did on this thread. :| :roll:
Iron Guardian said:
Certainly does seem to be the case in here...
On the matter of the disintegrator, I apologise for my quip earlier, but it was just too good a line-up for a pun for me to resist...
Speaking for myself, I think it would be a weapon I'd keep out of the hands of the players, but use against any PC who got a little too "tanked up" as a reminder that you may now be invunerable to most things, but nowhere near invincible.
And I'd just blame the "disintegrator" on a slightly dishonest weapons salesman... wanting to capitalise on people's imaginations as much as anything else.
I don't know. As the OP for this thread, I am happy with the result. I asked a question and got my answer. The side discussions were still on topic. And I got a couple laughs out of it.
And the issues around the disintegrator weapons isn't the normal 'realistic' or similar issue. It is purely a 'truth in advertising' issue. If I go to see a movie called "Snakes on a Plane", then I reasonably expect that the movie will involve a plane that has lots of snakes on it. If it instead shows me a cruise liner infested with vampire bats, it may still be a completely enjoyable movie, but it still isn't "Snakes on a Plane". Same with the disintegrator. Having a weapon that completely avoids armor is kinda cool. But it isn't a 'disintegrator'. If you include a weapon called a disintegrator, then I have reasonable expectections that something should be disintegrating. Even if it is the gun itself. (See, another WB/Martian joke.)
And the issues around the disintegrator weapons isn't the normal 'realistic' or similar issue. It is purely a 'truth in advertising' issue. If I go to see a movie called "Snakes on a Plane", then I reasonably expect that the movie will involve a plane that has lots of snakes on it. If it instead shows me a cruise liner infested with vampire bats, it may still be a completely enjoyable movie, but it still isn't "Snakes on a Plane". Same with the disintegrator. Having a weapon that completely avoids armor is kinda cool. But it isn't a 'disintegrator'. If you include a weapon called a disintegrator, then I have reasonable expectections that something should be disintegrating. Even if it is the gun itself. (See, another WB/Martian joke.)
Iron Guardian
Mongoose
Granted Daryen, I just applied the tag even though the weapon doesn't fit what all of us view as disintegrators -- "vaporizers" maybe? -- but upon scientific investigation it could be theorized by OTU scientists on to more developed versions. Reverse engineering leads to theory leads to new research which leads to more advanced versions which over time (and breakthroughs) create true disintegrators. Of course, this also creates a need for anti-disintegrator defenses... 8)
The place for such expectations is the The Rulemasters forum.Iron Guardian said:
Many such 'issues' are unresolvable by the posters on this forum - and many of these topics have been covered over and over again. So expect some venting and some humor and some debating - other members share your frustration. Most folks try to be helpful, or entertaining, at least. It is a game we are discussing, after all. Some just get off on arguing and ego boosting. Others may even just want to vent on the thread you are venting on... :wink:
If your group is having a stressful 'debate' over something so silly - then some are either enjoying the debate, or missing the whole point of playing a game. :roll:
Must resist...
Sorry, that "disintegration defenses" just is too good to pass up...
"Little does he know... that I have on, my Disintegration-Proof vest..." - Duck Dodgers...
What can I say - I just love those Warner Bros space cartoons... and that scene is one of the best... :mrgreen:
Sorry, that "disintegration defenses" just is too good to pass up...
"Little does he know... that I have on, my Disintegration-Proof vest..." - Duck Dodgers...
What can I say - I just love those Warner Bros space cartoons... and that scene is one of the best... :mrgreen:
Iron Guardian
Mongoose
I hear you all, just that the questions were posted on this forum and not the other one...I needed to vent...and sometimes it looks like the question posed might not get answered any time soon that helps the poster of said thread. I do enjoy the humor and debates on the merits of pseudo-technology, but I do sometimes worry that things will get off-track and the original problem gets forgotten...and sometimes people do take things a little too seriously as some gamers around where I live do forget at times why we do these things. :roll: Just good to see when the problems do get resolved and questions answered!
*NOTE: One topic that always annoys me is when people start debating the merits of one game system over another --those I view as truly pointless and only serve to ignite "flame" wars. But that is probably for another thread... :wink:
*NOTE: One topic that always annoys me is when people start debating the merits of one game system over another --those I view as truly pointless and only serve to ignite "flame" wars. But that is probably for another thread... :wink:
Iron Guardian said:and sometimes people do take things a little too seriously as some gamers around where I live do forget at times why we do these things. :roll: Just good to see when the problems do get resolved and questions answered!
It happens to all of us - I've had lectures on how certain rules don't make sense, why a weapon's stats are unrealistic, how I forgot to tell the group certain things, etc... (in the latter case, because they forgot to check something and because, until the group did certain things, it wasn't going to happen - and next time, check for BUGS...)...
And as for one game system over another... jeez... the only thing I'll say there is that the more dice sides you have being rolled, the better the system is for fine tuning, but the less some people like it (mainly do to maths skills, in my experience, larger numbers being harder to add and subtract) so no one system is "better" than another, merely better-suited to your own group.
GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
Iron Guardian said:
Heck, I have those sorts of discussions internally. I've been collecting, reading, and playing RPGs for so long I can dissect new ones, determine their taxonomy, and often tell if they are over-written or incomplete (or both) fairly quickly. I save active dislike for those games that engage in marketing shenanigans, false advertising, strong genre/mechanic mismatches, blatantly bad writing, obvious lack of testing, and other forms of dishonesty or stupidity.
Don't ask for a list, but if you must know, it is topped by some bunch named off the periodic table...
Iron Guardian
Mongoose
I agree due to potential flame war. Rust will be in the other camp (if there is beer and stuff)! :lol:
Beer ... popcorn gets stuck in my teeth... most annoying :mrgreen:
If a group is deadlocked about rules and its too contentious for the Ref to make the call - you could always propose they roll for it! (Yeah, I know this won't always work.)
I've never had this problem, myself - by the simple expedient of providing all rules and equipment lists myself. Why would my players need any books? My players don't get to know all DMs, mechanics, or have every option available to them from some book - they trust me to make it fun (and I work at that, not silly rules discussions).
This means I give them access to above average TL weapons and armour - and cool gadgets and lots of DMs for creative (even if unrealistic, to me) ways of using them. Of course, all tech IMTU is subject to running out of power, breaking, etc. My players know that - they also have vague idea of odds when their PC's should (in the RW most people have no idea about actual MTBFs, etc). I use dice, instead of fiat - and I let Players roll them (without explicit target numbers/DMs). Sometimes I let them know what they are rolling for, other times mystery rolls add the right amount of paranoia to keep their interest :twisted:
If a group is deadlocked about rules and its too contentious for the Ref to make the call - you could always propose they roll for it! (Yeah, I know this won't always work.)
I've never had this problem, myself - by the simple expedient of providing all rules and equipment lists myself. Why would my players need any books? My players don't get to know all DMs, mechanics, or have every option available to them from some book - they trust me to make it fun (and I work at that, not silly rules discussions).
This means I give them access to above average TL weapons and armour - and cool gadgets and lots of DMs for creative (even if unrealistic, to me) ways of using them. Of course, all tech IMTU is subject to running out of power, breaking, etc. My players know that - they also have vague idea of odds when their PC's should (in the RW most people have no idea about actual MTBFs, etc). I use dice, instead of fiat - and I let Players roll them (without explicit target numbers/DMs). Sometimes I let them know what they are rolling for, other times mystery rolls add the right amount of paranoia to keep their interest :twisted:
BP: I do a lot of rolls for my players, but at weird times, noting the results... so when I need a result, there's not usually a dice-roll involved, just checking the results. Occasionally, if I don't mind the paperwork, I'll get players to make a load of rolls and record the results for me. They stopped cheating on that one in my last group after they got it out of sync and ended up being nearly killed through really bad rolls... hint: a 20 in AD&D2E isn't always a good thing... :mrgreen:
By not having a dice throw when I need it and asking for dice rolls when I don't, they don't know whether to be paranoid or not - which is really funny to watch.
You can make up a sheet with all the relevant stats for each player that you'll need as well as the rolls they make and (often) fit the whole group onto one page, if you don't mind a few crunched bits of text. If you don't want to fill it up ahead of time, you can always record them rolls you ask them to make as they make them. If I don't have a roll for a player, I'll ask the whole group to roll, recording each one, but only using the one I needed - allows me to have the roll I needed, but also another roll per player that I didn't at the time, but it'll be one more in the bank. It also ramps the paranoia level even more.
By not having a dice throw when I need it and asking for dice rolls when I don't, they don't know whether to be paranoid or not - which is really funny to watch.
You can make up a sheet with all the relevant stats for each player that you'll need as well as the rolls they make and (often) fit the whole group onto one page, if you don't mind a few crunched bits of text. If you don't want to fill it up ahead of time, you can always record them rolls you ask them to make as they make them. If I don't have a roll for a player, I'll ask the whole group to roll, recording each one, but only using the one I needed - allows me to have the roll I needed, but also another roll per player that I didn't at the time, but it'll be one more in the bank. It also ramps the paranoia level even more.
My rolls for NPCs and the like are public - any private 'rolls' come from a pregened list - but I generally have found players are more engaged when they are making their own luck... (and can't blame me for bad rolls!)
Sometimes I have them roll just to get their attention - its a metagame trick, but I justify it as a PC's intuitive sense that they are missing something...
Sometimes I have them roll just to get their attention - its a metagame trick, but I justify it as a PC's intuitive sense that they are missing something...
GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
Ah yes, the Order of the Stick trick.
"Everyone stop and look around. I just failed a Spot check."
"Everyone stop and look around. I just failed a Spot check."
Yes, properly timed 'mystery' rolls can serve to keep the tension and adrenaline high, even for the most droll parts of an adventure. Of course, its a good idea to 'reward' high rolls (however useless the actual 'check'):
"You notice the walls look recently cleaned and the access panel is smudge free..."
"You notice the walls look recently cleaned and the access panel is smudge free..."
