Mating Airlocks to Cargo Hatches

[tytalan]

That is what I am talking about. Vehicle Handbook Update, page 95:

This is a eight Vehicle 'Space' light grav vehicle. 4 Vehicle 'Spaces' = 1 dTon; but it lists the 'Shipping Tonnage' as 4 dTons -- so 100% 'extra' space is already allocated, that is exactly what a Full Hangar requires. There is no need to add extra space.

That 8 space listing on the vehicle available customization space. A 8 space vehicle is actually 16 spaces but half of that is drive train and other necessary equipment. For example a light ground vehicle is .5dt for every space that’s because for every space you can use for thing like driver there’s another automatic space used for things like engines. This is why shipping tonnage is greater that the spaces would indicate. Or to use the airraft example you have 8 spaces used for 1 crew, 5 passengers and .25 dt take up that 8 spaces while the vehicle has another 8 spaces for grav systems, power systems, and whatever else needed for the vehicle to work. So doing the math 8 spaces (or 2dt ) of crew and cargo and another 8 spaces (or 2 dt) of drive train for a total of 16 spaces or 4 dt

 

[Condottiere]

One recognition that the storage algorithm isn't quite kosher, is that Vehicles halves the requirement, after a certain threshold is reached.

 

[Terry Mixon]

You really wouldn’t have airlocks for most loading and unloading. A airlock as Matt has said it a hatch room hatch. Cargo hatch’s would be designed to like up with station hatches so no airlock required. A airlock would be the worse thing for unloading a ship since you have to move the cargo into the airlock close the inner than open the outer hatch. Airlocks are really meant for EVAs not anything else

They really are a lot better for cargo.

 

[Endie]

So it goes back further than I thought BUT the air/raft goes back even further at being 4 tons.

As to ignoring canon design I understand the most recent CRB makes the bridge for 100 dTon ships to be 6 dTon so they invalidate some of their own. So having air/rafts not need a 5 dTon docking space isn't that big of an issue, you can just carry more than one or bigger air/rafts or be able to substitute something else. Or do the redesign for your campaign (which I would do anyhow as where the PCs would be is TL 11 peak).

Initially, the idea that an air/raft that carries four people takes up just shy of 60 cubic metres seems big to me, and I was going to post to agree with you. Two metres by six metres by five metres is immense. The exact figure (58 cubic metres) is four cubic metres bigger than the external dimensions of the largest variant of the Sherman tank, and almost four times the dimensions of a station wagon! And that doesn't even allow for the extra 25% space taken up when stowed ready for use on a ship.

However... if four tons means four standard (water) displacement tons (i.e. four cubic metres) then that's clearly far too small: you're not getting 6 people and quarter a ton of cargo, plus gravitics, power, chassis etc, into a space of roughly 2m x 2m x 1m.

So I guess the 4 tons is probably "4 dtons" or "it weighs four tons", and since the latter is pretty useless in any context, I suppose that the air/raft turns out to be an absolute humvee of a beast that needs a lot of space around it in your hold...

Edit: don't take this as support for the complaints across various threads for the last few weeks. This never causes any problems in any of my campaigns, and I bet that's true for the overwhelming, vast, huge majority of games. It's just a favourite forum gripe.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The original air/raft has a mass of 4,000kg, and can carry its crew plus 4,000kg in cargo.

When CT was revised in 81 the air/raft remained with those characteristics, but now required a 4 displacement ton berth on a ship.

It is about the size of a 4 ton truck, without the wheels.

Much has been lost in translation...

 

[tytalan]

They really are a lot better for cargo.

Only if your moving though vacuum or other environmental hazards. Two ships docked together don’t do that. The only time Airlocks for cargo makes sense it if your transshipping in empty space without a high or low port.

 

[Condottiere]

Decontamination procedure.

 

[swordtart]

Only if your moving though vacuum or other environmental hazards. Two ships docked together don’t do that.

If both ships are docked together then there is no reason to keep shutting the airlock doors so it makes no difference whether you use an airlock or a bay door other than the size of the door. Some ships by convention have loading ramps, but there is nothing in the rules that makes that a thing, you can't buy it as a component.

When planet side in a benign atmosphere you don't have to keep cycling the airlock, you can just open both doors.

The only time Airlocks for cargo makes sense it if your transshipping in empty space without a high or low port.

You might want to tranship in a hostile environment (smuggling for example). You might just want a door between you and the other party of the transaction rather than letting them into you entire cargo bay. Plenty of reasons, and once you have one, you probably wouldn't bother with other sorts of cargo door.

 

[tytalan]

If both ships are docked together then there is no reason to keep shutting the airlock doors so it makes no difference whether you use an airlock or a bay door other than the size of the door. Some ships by convention have loading ramps, but there is nothing in the rules that makes that a thing, you can't buy it as a component.

When planet side in a benign atmosphere you don't have to keep cycling the airlock, you can just open both doors.

You might want to tranship in a hostile environment (smuggling for example). You might just want a door between you and the other party of the transaction rather than letting them into you entire cargo bay. Plenty of reasons, and once you have one, you probably wouldn't bother with other sorts of cargo door.

Air locks limit the size of the cargo you can move through them also your air locks eats up the space that you can store cargo in. Also yes you can buy that component or its equivalent “ LOADING BELT Used to offload cargo from a hold, the loading belt does the work of 10 crewmen when used properly. From TL12, high-powered magnets are used to propel cargo containers, increasing the work output to that of 25 crewmen.” Pg 53 HG 22

 

[MarcusIII]

I would think that there are standard types/sizes of shipping containers and those would be vacuum rated. Would save a lot of hassle

 

[swordtart]

Air locks limit the size of the cargo you can move through them also your air locks eats up the space that you can store cargo in. Also yes you can buy that component or its equivalent “ LOADING BELT Used to offload cargo from a hold, the loading belt does the work of 10 crewmen when used properly. From TL12, high-powered magnets are used to propel cargo containers, increasing the work output to that of 25 crewmen.” Pg 53 HG 22

A loading belt is not equivalent to a door. Without the door the loading belt is useless. Where is it written that you cannot use a loading belt with a cargo airlock?

 

[Condottiere]

Used to offload cargo from a hold, the loading belt does the work of 10 crewmen when used properly. From TL12, high-powered magnets are used to propel cargo containers, increasing the work output to that of 25 crewmen.


Doesn't really explain much.

 

[tytalan]

A loading belt is not equivalent to a door. Without the door the loading belt is useless. Where is it written that you cannot use a loading belt with a cargo airlock?

You said there was no loading ramp or it’s equivalent I point out there is that has nothing to do with airlocks, good try with the misdirection

 

[swordtart]

You said there was no loading ramp or it’s equivalent I point out there is that has nothing to do with airlocks, good try with the misdirection

A loading ramp is a door. And a loading belt is not the same as a loading ramp either so... touche.

 

[tytalan]

Generally speaking if you unloading and loading cargo away from a Starport or Spaceport your smuggling and your ship is going to design for such. In most other cases you don’t need to move cargo through an airlock.

 

[tytalan]

A loading ramp is a door. And a loading belt is not the same as a loading ramp either so... touche.

Actually a loading ramp is just that a ramp to the door not a door in itself. Car carriers have loading ramps they also have gates this is just one example but there are many more. A cargo door may or may not have a loading ramp but their ramp is also not usually the door.

 

[swordtart]

Actually a loading ramp is just that a ramp to the door not a door in itself. Car carriers have loading ramps they also have gates this is just one example but there are many more. A cargo door may or may not have a loading ramp but their ramp is also not usually the door.

Pretty sure the Empress Marava class has a ramp that is also a door, but it is a common enough SF trope.

However if you are sticking to that definition then I revise my statement to accomodate you.

Some ships by convention have loading ramps doors, but there is nothing in the rules that makes that a thing, you can't buy it as a component.

 

[swordtart]

Generally speaking if you unloading and loading cargo away from a Starport or Spaceport your smuggling and your ship is going to design for such. In most other cases you don’t need to move cargo through an airlock.

Not if the terms of your delivery contract are ex-works for example. Sometimes people do land on planetary surfaces for other reasons that smuggling. Not all Starport or Spaceports are enclosed even on hostile worlds. It seems more likely they would not be since they are often Class E and that is just a landing pad in most cases.

 

[tytalan]

Not if the terms of your delivery contract are ex-works for example. Sometimes people do land on planetary surfaces for other reasons that smuggling. Not all Starport or Spaceports are enclosed even on hostile worlds. It seems more likely they would not be since they are often Class E and that is just a landing pad in most cases.

Generally speaking Class E Starports are in the frontier and very low TL which also means the atmosphere is breathable. And you don’t need an Airlock to depressurize your cargo bay to unload it most ships cargo bays are separate from the rest of the ship. The Marava has two cargo air locks and the Hero, Beowulf and Subsidized Merch all have separate cargo hold so they don’t need an air lock. I would say the latter 3 are good examples of why Airlocks are generally considered a waste of space on a trader.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Only if your moving though vacuum or other environmental hazards. Two ships docked together don’t do that. The only time Airlocks for cargo makes sense it if your transshipping in empty space without a high or low port.

I meant the hatches, as I was agreeing with you.