Mating Airlocks to Cargo Hatches

[MasterGwydion]

That would depend on how they're packed (in).

Usually, there's an air gap along the top, so you can lift them out with you hand forklift.

Futuristic ones could have pallets with inbuilt rollers.

If you can't rely on a sustained gravity field, you probably either have to lock down each pallet, or fill up the gaps.

As to actual dimensions:

ISO 668 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So, what you are saying is that a 3-ton cargo container cannot hold 3 tons of cargo, correct?

 

[Terry Mixon]

So, what you are saying is that a 3-ton cargo container cannot hold 3 tons of cargo, correct?

It looks like the displacement tons (13.5 cubic meters in this case) are accurate. I'm not going to worry about container thickness and just say they are one and the same. It's Traveller magic!

 

[Condottiere]

So, what you are saying is that a 3-ton cargo container cannot hold 3 tons of cargo, correct?

If I correctly understand where this is going, I'll state that I've always made fun of the paperthin hulls for spacecraft in Traveller.

Though, prima facie, I go along with an unarmoured default hull having available the stated usable volume.

As regards to real life containers, there is a set of outer dimensions that determines how much minimum volume they take up in a cargo hold, and a set of inner dimensions, that caps how much actual cargo they can contain.

 

[rinku]

If this is the volume of the entire container, then how much cargo can you actually fit into one? It would seem to me, that now We have no idea how much volume is available inside of the containers.

It's a shipping term. Actual technical jargon. The people doing the shipping don't actually care what the interior capacity is - that's customer stuff. They just need to know the exterior dimensions and to an extent the weight.

 

[MasterGwydion]

It looks like the displacement tons (13.5 cubic meters in this case) are accurate. I'm not going to worry about container thickness and just say they are one and the same. It's Traveller magic!

I can go with this. It is a granular detail that won't ever come into play anyhow.

 

[MasterGwydion]

It's a shipping term. Actual technical jargon. The people doing the shipping don't actually care what the interior capacity is - that's customer stuff. They just need to know the exterior dimensions and to an extent the weight.

A Spec Trader would need to know both of these things, but Terry's answer above works better.

 

[rinku]

Since cargo and freight in Traveller is framed from the point of view of the carrier, tonnage would be containers, not how much is in the containers. And, yeah, that will mean that some containers will have smaller capacity than others.

 

[rinku]

It will only ever come up if you own a cargo and are actually unpacking it for use, I would say.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Since cargo and freight in Traveller is framed from the point of view of the carrier, tonnage would be containers, not how much is in the containers. And, yeah, that will mean that some containers will have smaller capacity than others.

This is not correct. It is from the point of view of the PCs. PCs carry freight using the Freight rules, but also carry Spec Cargo, which makes them not just a carrier, but also a shipper.

 

[rinku]

Yeah, but all of it is considered in terms of what will fit into a cargo hold, PC, NPC, whoever. Packaging HAS to be part of that.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Yeah, but all of it is considered in terms of what will fit into a cargo hold, PC, NPC, whoever. Packaging HAS to be part of that.

So is 23 tons of Advanced Weapons in a cargo container? If so, what size? Do the prices on the spec trade chart include the cargo container and therefore their tonnage is included in the tonnage listed in the CRB? So, if I steal it, is the volume of what is in the cargo container the same or less than the amount of space it takes up in a cargo hold? It matters as it will make the tonnage stealable, and therefore saleable, differ depending on which is true.

I still like Terry's space magic approach. It is the easiest to work with.

 

[Terry Mixon]

So is 23 tons of Advanced Weapons in a cargo container? If so, what size? Do the prices on the spec trade chart include the cargo container and therefore their tonnage is included in the tonnage listed in the CRB? So, if I steal it, is the volume of what is in the cargo container the same or less than the amount of space it takes up in a cargo hold? It matters as it will make the tonnage stealable, and therefore saleable, differ depending on which is true.

I still like Terry's space magic approach. It is the easiest to work with.

Run with the container size for that.

 

[rinku]

23 tons of advanced weapons are a cargo lot that takes up 23 tons of volume.

What the mass of those weapons is, or how many or what type they are, or how they are packed INSIDE the container (highly, highly unlikely to just be thrown in as a pile...) is going to vary. By all means work that stuff out if you need to, but unless and until they are removed from however they are being shipped, OR if you are doing the packing to begin with, it doesn't matter.

Or, I dunno, assume an interior capacity of 95% and a wastage of 25% for the weapons being in crates. Or whatever seems logical.

 

[rinku]

In any case, all I did was look up what the term "cubic capacity" means in actual shipping terms, because the picture didn't say.

If you object to that usage, go complain to these guys:

Cubic Capacity: Understanding Its Legal Definition | US Legal Forms

Explore the legal definition of Cubic Capacity and its significance in maritime law. Learn how it's measured and its impact on shipping regulations.

legal-resources.uslegalforms.com

 

[Sigtrygg]

If in doubt return to classic Traveller:
"When determining the contents of a cargo, the players and referee must be certain to correlate the established price of goods with the cost per ton. For example, the base price of a shotgun is Cr150, while a ton of firearms as trade goods has a base price of Cr30,OOO. A strict weight extension of the shotgun (3.75 kg per shotgun) would indicate 266 shotguns. Extension should be instead based on price, with weight as a limiting factor. Thus one ton of shotguns would contain 200 guns, at Cr150 each. The extra weight can be considered packing and crates. Similar calculations should be made to keep prices in line on other trade goods."

 

[Condottiere]

You could use light weight plastic packing.

Weight limitations would be more based on package strength, and:

 

[MasterGwydion]

If in doubt return to classic Traveller:
"When determining the contents of a cargo, the players and referee must be certain to correlate the established price of goods with the cost per ton. For example, the base price of a shotgun is Cr150, while a ton of firearms as trade goods has a base price of Cr30,OOO. A strict weight extension of the shotgun (3.75 kg per shotgun) would indicate 266 shotguns. Extension should be instead based on price, with weight as a limiting factor. Thus one ton of shotguns would contain 200 guns, at Cr150 each. The extra weight can be considered packing and crates. Similar calculations should be made to keep prices in line on other trade goods."

Then explain to me how 1 ton of Robots is 400kCR, but robots smaller than 1-ton can cost vastly more than 400kCr.

Also, to use your example. 200 shotguns taking up 13.5 cubic meters? That is 15 shotguns per cubic meter. Seems a bit off, but okay.

Now try that with other things. Autopistol 200Cr or 150 autopistols per ton of cargo. That is 11 pistols per cubic meter. I can transport 11 pistols well-packaged for transport in a small suitcase. Average autopistol is about 0.00082m3. That means that 1,000 of them take up less than a meter. That seems like an awful lot of packing material. To go from 800 per m3 to 11 per m3.

Since shipping cargo in Traveller uses only volume and not weight, most of your post has been invalidated by the changing system.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Then explain to me how 1 ton of Robots is 400kCR, but robots smaller than 1-ton can cost vastly more than 400kCr.

Because trade goods labelled "robots" are just one example of a type of trade goods for which there would be practically infinite variety.

There should be "1 ton of robots" trade items that cost Cr 40,000, Cr. 400,000 or even Cr 4,000,000

Also, to use your example. 200 shotguns taking up 13.5 cubic meters? That is 15 shotguns per cubic meter. Seems a bit off, but okay.

Nope.
First of all the displacement ton is 14 m³ not 13.5 m³ in mgT CRB and High Guard, second the amount of cargo that can be loaded into 1 cargo ton is limited to 1,000kg in CT.

Now try that with other things. Autopistol 200Cr or 150 autopistols per ton of cargo. That is 11 pistols per cubic meter. I can transport 11 pistols well-packaged for transport in a small suitcase.

Again, you are going by volume, not mass. The CT rules go by mass - so Cr 30,000 worth of autopistols is 30,000/210 = 142 individual guns, with a total mass of 0.75 x 142 = 106.5kg. Which gives a packaging mass of 893,5kg - somewhat excessive for a 1 displacement ton lot but hey ho.

Average autopistol is about 0.00082m3. That means that 1,000 of them take up less than a meter. That seems like an awful lot of packing material. To go from 800 per m3 to 11 per m3.

CT used mass rather than volume - hence 20 x 50kg missiles in one displacement ton rather than the three hundred or so you could fit in 14 m³

How big is an autopistol in its presentation box as supplied with cleaning kit, spare magazines, lock, manuals?

Since shipping cargo in Traveller uses only volume and not weight, most of your post has been invalidated by the changing system.

I stated I was returning to classic Traveller to make the point that a lot of the trade goods package is the packaging rather than the item itself...

 

[MasterGwydion]

Because trade goods labelled "robots" are just one example of a type of trade goods for which there would be practically infinite variety.

There should be "1 ton of robots" trade items that cost Cr 40,000, Cr. 400,000 or even Cr 4,000,000

Nope.
First of all the displacement ton is 14 ³ not 13.5 ³ in mgT CRB and High Guard, second the amount of cargo that can be loaded into 1 cargo ton is limited to 1,000kg in CT.

It is even worse if you use 14 instead of 13.5

Again, you are going by volume, not mass. The CT rules go by mass - so Cr 30,000 worth of autopistols is 30,000/210 = 142 individual guns, with a total mass of 0.75 x 142 = 106.5kg. Which gives a packaging mass of 893,5kg - somewhat excessive for a 1 displacement ton lot but hey ho.

Nothing is the ship rules uses mass these days. You can add near infinite mass to a small object and it changes nothing in modern Traveller.

CT used mass rather than volume - hence 20 x 50kg missiles in one displacement ton rather than the hundred or so you could fit in 14 ³

Yes, CT did, but none of that is in use anymore. I am aware of no ship components that lists their mass in any MgT2 publication.

How big is an autopistol in its presentation box as supplied with cleaning kit, spare magazines, lock, manuals?

Mine was 12" x 14" x 4" or 0.011m3. So, you could fit just under 1,300 in each dton.

I stated I was returning to classic Traveller to make the point that a lot of the trade goods package is the packaging rather than the item itself...

Perhaps it was that way in CT, but there is no indication that this is still the case since Mongoose doesn't use mass for anything above the vehicle level.

 

[Doctor Crunch]

If in doubt return to classic Traveller:
"When determining the contents of a cargo, the players and referee must be certain to correlate the established price of goods with the cost per ton. For example, the base price of a shotgun is Cr150, while a ton of firearms as trade goods has a base price of Cr30,OOO. A strict weight extension of the shotgun (3.75 kg per shotgun) would indicate 266 shotguns. Extension should be instead based on price, with weight as a limiting factor. Thus one ton of shotguns would contain 200 guns, at Cr150 each. The extra weight can be considered packing and crates. Similar calculations should be made to keep prices in line on other trade goods."

Are they using the retail price to value bulk shipping there?