Mandatory Card Game rules questions

Greg Smith

Mongoose
We played our first game last night. Great fun was had by all. Bonus fun, in fact.

The main problem we encountered was the limited quantity of Security Clearance Cards - what happens when 2 troubleshooters go up a clearance level simultaneously and there is only one card available?

A minor point was that we felt there should be some penalty for dying - it can be advantageous to die because your treason tokens are removed. So much so, that troubleshooters were shooting themselves.

Has anybody else encountered this?
 
I felt the pyramid availability of higher clearance gave a new focus to the game as Troubleshooters rose through the ranks. Mid-clearance citizens have a damned good reason to focus their ire on higher clearance citizens - getting them demoted at any opportunity.

Under what circumstances were you finding death preferable to treason tokens? If you die, yes you lose the tokens, but you can easily find yourself with more and then you're losing two clones or more per mission. If the other players follow the tactic too often, consider:

- playing the tactic against them by providing valuable Docbot support when they least want it
- angle your tactics to ensure you win the turn they're out of the game
- change the rules, removing the another reference from Attacking Loyal Citizens is Bad on page 10. The Computer values all property and that includes you. Troubleshooters who shoot themselves clearly have some kind of defective gene or have suffered Communist reprogramming... therefore, they deserve reprimand (and 2 Treason tokens) so that might learn the error of their ways. Yes, the player can still clean his slate by shooting himself to death... but maybe you should reinforce it isn't the right thing to do in The Computer's eyes.

Alternately, you might want to introduce punishments for clones who kill themselves while traitors. Again, something clearly wrong with that clones template. While the sins of the last clone don't transfer to the new one in the PARANOIA rpg, we can make an exception here. If a clone commits suicide a traitor, compare the amount of treason tokens over their limit to the following table:

1-2 Token(s) Over Limit -- Fines. When the clone replacement arrives, the player must discard two cards at random, then draw one fresh card to replace the loss. If this would reduce the players hand to zero, the mission ends BEFORE the clone arrives at the mission location and they do not benefit from the outcome of the debriefing.
3 Tokens Over Limit -- Probation. Whenever the next clone receives one or more Treason tokens as a result of an Action Card or treasonous act (e.g. shooting a Loyal citizen), flip a coin. If they flip a heads, they lose their next turn.
4 Tokens Over Limit -- Demotion. The clone replacement loses ONE Security Clearance.
5-6 Tokens Over Limit -- Brainscrub. When the clone replacement arrives, the player must continue play with all Action Cards face up on the table.
7 or more Token Over Limit -- Template Erased. The clone replacement arrives busted down to RED Clearance, discards all current Action cards and draws a fresh hand of 5 cards.

Or something like that.
 
PaulB said:
I felt the pyramid availability of higher clearance gave a new focus to the game as Troubleshooters rose through the ranks. Mid-clearance citizens have a damned good reason to focus their ire on higher clearance citizens - getting them demoted at any opportunity.

It wasn't so much the limited numbers that were the problems, but the fact that we had two trouble shooters go up at the end of a mission, but only one clearance card. There was nothing covering it in the rules. In the end we felt neither would get it.
 
I would suggest using something similar to the procedure used to select a Team Leader. Give the clearance increase to the one:

- with no Treason tokens
- otherwise, the least Treason tokens
- otherwise, the Team Leader (if he/she happens to be one of those hoping for an increase)
- otherwise, the nearest player up for promotion to the left of the Team Leader
 
Greg Smith said:
PaulB said:
I felt the pyramid availability of higher clearance gave a new focus to the game as Troubleshooters rose through the ranks. Mid-clearance citizens have a damned good reason to focus their ire on higher clearance citizens - getting them demoted at any opportunity.

It wasn't so much the limited numbers that were the problems, but the fact that we had two trouble shooters go up at the end of a mission, but only one clearance card. There was nothing covering it in the rules. In the end we felt neither would get it.

Just give them both the promotion, remembering someone is due a higher card. Nothing in the rules states that you can't get promoted if no card is available.

My deck even has 9 Red clearance cards, not bad for an 8 player game.

LBH
 
lastbesthope said:
Just give them both the promotion, remembering someone is due a higher card.
Giving them both the promotion sounds far too fair to me... that's not PARANOIA at all. I made my previous suggestion on the basis of some kind of logic. Perhaps the better idea would be to roll a die or toss a coin. Promotion comes to those who just happen to be lucky enough to get it at the time. That makes more (non)sense in a PARANOIA-stylee.
 
Both players are promoted but the Team Leader gets to decide who receives the spiffy official looking security card, and who gets the cheesy temporary card made from notebook paper and crayons.
 
Tell him the Computer will send him one in the post and until that time he has to stay at his current clearance...
 
The solution to give them both promotions does seem way too fair. I think neither of them should get it until the next game and the first one to get wounded by someone other than the other player, doesn't get the promotion.

Or the first one with a treason token gets it. They get it right away benefitting from the increase in wounds and treason token maxes but they don't get any more cards.
 
lastbesthope said:
Nothing in the rules states that you can't get promoted if no card is available.

Umm. Yes it does, page 14 under "Gaining a Security Clearance" and "Losing a Security Clearance".

This was is quite a fun game, unless you're playing to win in which case the flawed rules become a major annoyance.

We had the same simultaneous leveling up/down problem a few times, weird timing issues, etc.
 
wooltech said:
lastbesthope said:
Nothing in the rules states that you can't get promoted if no card is available.

Umm. Yes it does, page 14 under "Gaining a Security Clearance" and "Losing a Security Clearance".

(Checks rules download)

You know he's right. My bad, thanks for the pointer.

LBH
 
wooltech said:
We had the same simultaneous leveling up/down problem a few times, weird timing issues, etc.
Hey, even the longest running 'collectible' card game has been through multiple permutations of rules to manage timing issues. Only The Computer could possibly have got this right the first time.

Adopt, adapt and improve.
 
Other than the promotion issue, the only other query we found was the Stealth Train Mission - does it end when it reaches 5 treason or wound tokens or does it end as normal?
 
It would end when it fails (i.e. when tokens assigned exceed the limits indicated), as at that point your team have failed to continue the pretence that the Stealth Train exists (as it actually doesn't).

Actually, I suggested this card, but the content got changed a little before it saw print...
 
PaulB said:
Hey, even the longest running 'collectible' card game has been through multiple permutations of rules to manage timing issues. Adopt, adapt and improve.

Trouble is, when I buy a game I'd quite like it to work out of the box. The flaws we've found all seem to be rather basic things that should have been picked up in playtesting.

It's frustrating as it's ALMOST a really good game.

Anyways, not coming on here just to insult the game, just wondering if other people had similar problems and if there were variant rules floating around to fix things.
 
Well I would nee d to see the exact wording of the Stealth train mission to decide.

as for rules inconsistency and fuzziness, that is part of what makes Paranoia fun, the GM/Owner gets to decide :twisted:

The card game does have a section in the rules discussing how to resolve rules arguements after all

LBH
 
lastbesthope said:
as for rules inconsistency and fuzziness, that is part of what makes Paranoia fun, the GM/Owner gets to decide :twisted:

It's part of what makes the RPG fun. For a card game, "whenever this doesn't make sense, just toss a coin or something" is a bit of a cop out.

Maybe it's just the group I game with, but when we play we try to win and that just doesn't work with flawed rules.

That said - any expansions planned? There's a glaring lack of mutations in the game. Erm. For the loyal troubleshooters to gun down, that is.
 
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