Mainframe Computer

[Arkathan]

Think Battle network rules in HG, without the battle part.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

If you were addressing my examples from CSC, I think you missed. The point was that even 'Takes up a full dTon' (something that ship's computers explicitly no longer do in Mongoose) there is no way to build a Bandwidth/100 computer. I illustrated this with max-tech 'Mid sized' computers (TL 10, which should be able to build a Core/50 computer for 60 MCr) fails, at Bandwidth/17 and 81.9 MCr.

Bending the rules a little to allow using more compact and sophisticated 'Portable' computers also fails. Using max-tech portable computers (TL 14) fails too; TL 14 should be able to produce Core/90 computers for no dTons and 120 MCr -- instead, a dTon of clustered portable computer/4s will only get to bandwidth/21 at a cost of 327.7 MCr.

Why can’t you just apply the retrotech computer rules to shipboard computers?

 

[Terry Mixon]

Why can’t you just apply the retrotech computer rules to shipboard computers?

I think that’s valid. I do it.

 

[Ol'Weedy]

The problem is that even if your cat is alive, all you know is that the other cat is dead, but that doesn't convey any useful information, because at the far end of the cat killing contraption, finding out that your cat died can happen at any time. And if you watch a bunch of cats keel over in a row glass boxes, then the whole uncertainty thing collapses on you - and half the cats on your end are dead. The rest are pissed.

On the other hand, if you have a really large surplus of cats...
<runs from cat lovers>

 

[J. L. Brown]

Why can’t you just apply the retrotech computer rules to shipboard computers?

I do, but it doesn't solve the problem I identified. A ship is allowed to have a maximum of one main computer, and a maximum of one (less powerful) back-up computer -- so no big clusters allowed.

It also makes the Computer/20 (TL 12, 5 MCr) sort of pointless; a Core/40 is 5.625 MCr. Above that it gets worse:
Computer/25 for (TL13 10 MCr), or a Core/50 for 7.5 MCr;
Computer/30 for (TL 14 20 MCr), or a Core/60 for 9.375 MCr;
Computer/35 for (TL 15 30 MCr), or a Core/70 for 10 MCr.

I will concede that being constrained to lower-TL programs is sometimes (but not often, outside Military vessels) a pain.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

I do, but it doesn't solve the problem I identified. A ship is allowed to have a maximum of one main computer, and a maximum of one (less powerful) back-up computer -- so no big clusters allowed.

It also makes the Computer/20 (TL 12, 5 MCr) sort of pointless; a Core/40 is 5.625 MCr. Above that it gets worse:
Computer/25 for (TL13 10 MCr), or a Core/50 for 7.5 MCr;
Computer/30 for (TL 14 20 MCr), or a Core/60 for 9.375 MCr;
Computer/35 for (TL 15 30 MCr), or a Core/70 for 10 MCr.

I will concede that being constrained to lower-TL programs is sometimes (but not often, outside Military vessels) a pain.

I did not interpret it that way. I equated a cluster as one computer (since that is how they function). In my mind, Cores are just preformed clusters.

 

[Limpin Legin]

I did not interpret it that way. I equated a cluster as one computer (since that is how they function). In my mind, Cores are just preformed clusters.

Clusters are like Cores with more resources.

 

[Condottiere]

Creative interpretation, or cheating.

Breakaway hull, whose computer kicks in once the primary hull one gets degraded.

 

[Limpin Legin]

Creative interpretation, or cheating.

Breakaway hull, whose computer kicks in once the primary hull one gets degraded.

Sounds like a design for an escape pod.

 

[Condottiere]

Could be designed that way, with the current cutting edge computer.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Revisiting the computer rules should definitely be on the MgT 3e list...

 

[MasterGwydion]

Since there are no real rules for building computers, I just ignore the stupid rules that We have now, such as only 2 Computers per ship with one as the main and a lesser computer as the backup. The person that wrote that rule was an idiot. If I need more Bandwidth, I just add extra computers and allow them to run together as one computer.

 

[Sigtrygg]

What has bandwidth got to do with processing capability? This is the first thing I would change.

I would have three parameters:

Processing - storage - bandwidth

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

Since there are no real rules for building computers, I just ignore the stupid rules that We have now, such as only 2 Computers per ship with one as the main and a lesser computer as the backup. The person that wrote that rule was an idiot. If I need more Bandwidth, I just add extra computers and allow them to run together as one computer.

Sounds like an easy fix for a JTAS article.
@MongooseMatt, would you be interested in something short like this?

 

[Limpin Legin]

What has bandwidth got to do with processing capability? This is the first thing I would change.

I would have three parameters:

Processing - storage - bandwidth

Should remove limit for exceeding bandwidth by a prescribed fraction and impose a latency trait penalty instead. Trait penalties can be like keyboard freeze, graphics jitter, processing slow down, network timeout, etc.

Bandwidth enables processing.

Processing is basically like computer encumbrance.

Traveller encumbrance = Strength + Endurance + Athletics

actual bandwidth = needed bandwidth + latency + turbo boost ( =more power+heat overhead)

 

[Limpin Legin]

The person that wrote that rule was an idiot. If I need more Bandwidth, I just add extra computers and allow them to run together as one computer.

It makes sense to a fashion (without going into much detail.) If you add too many extra computers, you need more junctions and more conducting tracks. Both increase latency and reduce overall usable bandwidth. Therefore the rules should allow users to cobble together what they want, but impose a latency trait penalty instead. Trait penalty could result in total operational shutdown and still consume ship's power.

Otherwise, adding computers gets a bit like an infinite sized toolbelt or backpack.

 

[AndrewW]

Otherwise, adding computers gets a bit like an infinite sized toolbelt or backpack.

Computer of Holding.

 

[Limpin Legin]

Computer of Holding.

I would genuinely like to see a Traveller campaign that plots to discover a connection with *the astral plane*, from within the OTU. Maybe a suitably stitched piece of leather would suddenly be a portal to that kinda opening move ...

 

[MasterGwydion]

It makes sense to a fashion (without going into much detail.) If you add too many extra computers, you need more junctions and more conducting tracks. Both increase latency and reduce overall usable bandwidth. Therefore the rules should allow users to cobble together what they want, but impose a latency trait penalty instead. Trait penalty could result in total operational shutdown and still consume ship's power.

Otherwise, adding computers gets a bit like an infinite sized toolbelt or backpack.

Or you do something like double the number of computers and gain 150% increase in Bandwidth. This handles your problem.

2 Core.100 computers would give you 150 Bandwidth

 

[MasterGwydion]

Should remove limit for exceeding bandwidth by a prescribed fraction and impose a latency trait penalty instead. Trait penalties can be like keyboard freeze, graphics jitter, processing slow down, network timeout, etc.

Bandwidth enables processing.

Processing is basically like computer encumbrance.

Traveller encumbrance = Strength + Endurance + Athletics

actual bandwidth = needed bandwidth + latency + turbo boost ( =more power+heat overhead)

Bandwidth is just the word they use. It actually describes processing speed and power. The higher the number, the more processing speed and power that you have available to run programs. Consider it, partly, your RAM. To run more programs or more complex programs, you need more RAM.

If you ignore the actual word Bandwidth, it is not bad.