Magic Attack Bonus for Scholars

[quigs]

I had a theory in regards to the scholar class. What would happen if they received a 3/4 Magic Attack Bonus progression rather than the 1/2 progression they get now?

Would it break the sorcery system? I'm just thinking that the scholar class gets shafted in a lot of areas. He has an average Base Attack progression, one good saving throw, and the worst dodge and parry bonuses. He also gets the least amount of hp in the game.

If you take a look at some of the scholar prestige classes, they get a more rapid magic attack bonus progression, so why not the base class? A perfect example is the Witchmen of Hyperborea.

I think this would also help to spread out the spell selection a bit for lower level scholars. They would be able to learn some of the better spells a level or 2 sooner, but they would still be subject to the higher PP costs and risks. Plus a lot of the more powerful spells require lots of skill ranks that would keep them out of reach until the appropriate level.

I just figure that the Magic Attack Bonus is the scholar's main statistic, and thus, it should get a better progression than +1 every 2 levels.

 

[Taharqa]

That seems like a pretty good idea to me. One thing I have noticed when I try to build NPC sorcerors is that there are very few viable options for spells at many levels because of the restrictions on the magical attack bonuses.

 

[quigs]

That's one of the reasons I thought of as well

 

[argo]

It would make Scholars way too powerful. As it is the DC to save against a scholar's spell is 1d20 + Base Magic Attack + Cha mod. If we assume that you get an average roll of 10 then that makes it 10 + MAB + Cha mod which gives us a range of 10 + Cha mod at first level to 20 + Cha mod at twentith level.

With your proposed change that would make it a range of 10 + Cha mod at first level up to 25 + Cha mod at twentith level.

If you don't see right off the bat why that is bad then consider the DnD Wizard whose saving throw DC's are 10 + spell level + ability mod giving him a range of 10 + Int mod for cantrips up to 19 + Int mod for 9th level spells (which the Wizard gets at 17th level). Now compare 19 + Int mod with the current Scholar max of 20 + Cha mod and your proposed rule of 25 + Cha mod for a 3/4 BAB.

Another comparison: when mosters have a special ability with a saving throw the DC of that saving throw is 10 + 1/2 the creature's HD + the relevant ability modifier (usually charisma). For a creature with 20HD that makes a DC of, you guessed it, 20 + ability mod. Compare this also with the Stunning Attack feat where the DC is 10 + 1/2 your character level + Str mod.


Are you noticing a pattern here? Have you guessed what it is yet? Then consider that "good" saving throws progress from +2 at 1st level to +12 at 20th level while "bad" saving throws progress from +0 at 1st to +6 at 20th. Get it? The good saving throw progression is supposed to pull ahead of the DC curve while the poor saving throw progression is supposed to fall behind the DC curve. If you gave Scholars a 3/4 magic attack bonus then their spell DC's would pull ahead of the good saving throw progression which means that they would be able to target the good saves of equall-level opponents with out much chance of failure. That is unbalanced. And when you also consider how many save-or-die spells scholars have it threatens to become un-fun as well.

The Scholar's Magic Attack Bonus is fine as is.

Hope that helps.

 

[quigs]

Well with all attitude aside, I see your point. I just don't like the pre-requisites of some of the spells, so I guess I'll have to tweak those a bit instead.

The AE spells appear to be well laid out and balanced, but some of the spells from Scrolls of Skelos and Free Companies need some serious work to make them worth taking.

 

[Sven]

Well with all attitude aside, I see your point. I just don't like the pre-requisites of some of the spells, so I guess I'll have to tweak those a bit instead.

The AE spells appear to be well laid out and balanced, but some of the spells from Scrolls of Skelos and Free Companies need some serious work to make them worth taking.

Well, many spells from Scroll of Skelos are meant to be more powerful spells which are only available for experienced scholars, not for beginners.

Some spells from later works (like Hyboria's Finest or Hyboria's Fallen) have a very low MAB as prerequisites, sometimes too low for my opinion.

I think it is always difficult to say when a spell and its prerequisites are balanced and when not, especially with the sorcery of the Hyborian Age.

 

[Valaryc]

i'm with both oppionions

on the one hand a low-med level scholar can't be very felexible and innovative with his spells. the prequisities command mostly the character creation and the "good" spells are comming very late.

on the other hand if you lower the MAB he will be very powerful very early.

so i go with the third way....work some prerequisites over. for example gelid bones...i ignore the "oriental magic prerequisite" (don't know the exact spell right now) and let the scholar have it as a "normal curse". now he has something useful for combat and can take out some enemies.

 

[quigs]

Yes! Some of the spell pre-requisites don't make a lot of sense to me either. The Gelid Bones one is a perfect example. If the pre-requisite spell relates to what the spell does, then sure, its fine as is, but if its from an entirely different style and is totally unrelated to the spell effect, I'll probably drop it.

Another kinda silly thing I saw in the SoS spells were some spells required, say, a +4 magic attack bonus, but also required you to know another spell that had a higher magic attack bonus as its pre-requisite. Now where's the point in that, other than making it utterly confusing and time consuming to come up with scholar NPC spell lists?

While these supplemental books are great for their fluff and setting content, their crunch and rule sections really need to be overhauled to make them work. I'm at the point where I can't trust any of the stat blocks within these books without going through them one by one to correct all the mistakes, and I find a lot of them.