M2 Bradley stats
- Thread starter brook
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The Old Soldier
Mongoose
^ Very cool indeed, Hiro! 8)
You did say that it needed some tweaking...Hiromoon said:
Nevertheless it is still awesome. Great work Hiromoon!
Jellicoe said:
From what I saw of those videos that Hiromoon posted, those additional five TOWs took up infantry space in the back of the Bradley. All I can say is that realistically, 8 men and 5 TOWs in the back of a Bradley IFV makes for an uncomfortable ride.
Actually... 8 men and 5 TOWs sounds like a good title for a new comedy: You'll never know what these kooky characters will get up to in their confined quarters...coming up next on Fox. :wink:
I realise that you were using the Future Lynx entry but my question is just how realistic are the stats for vehicles?
Don't get me wrong. As a USMC player I am more than happy to have an additional five TOWS for those pesky PLA but could the bradley really take 8 men and five TOWS? From what I've read they can take 6 men and 5 TOWs...not sure about the rest although it does make sense to take the additional two because that allows it to carry a basic USMC infantry squad.
Thanks once again for the work you did Hiromoon and Jellicoe too.
Why not say that the Bradley has to take a ready action before it can fire the TOW instead?
That could represent the crew loading the TOW launcher. Although there are already two in it...
Also, seeing as it explicitly states that there are 7 TOWs, does that mean it only can take 7 shots? (I do realise that trying a game may not last 7 turns).
That maybe true Paladin but the Warrior also has insane armour; it has a kill score of 13 and is only 150pts! Both the Bradley and Warrior cannot be instantly killed by a type 99 while in cover. :shock:
And good luck trying to use and abrams against a warrior in cover.
That could represent the crew loading the TOW launcher. Although there are already two in it...
Also, seeing as it explicitly states that there are 7 TOWs, does that mean it only can take 7 shots? (I do realise that trying a game may not last 7 turns).
Paladin said:
That maybe true Paladin but the Warrior also has insane armour; it has a kill score of 13 and is only 150pts! Both the Bradley and Warrior cannot be instantly killed by a type 99 while in cover. :shock:
And good luck trying to use and abrams against a warrior in cover.
Hiromoon said:
I've got no problem with the kill rating and the armour composition. I'm more than happy to have a Bradley hunkered down nice and safe against those nasty type 99s.
Hiromoon said:
Thanks for that Hiromoon. From what I've seen, the TOW is able to fire on the move, it's just the fact that it needs to be reloaded that is posing a problem...from my understanding anyway.
Arguably, with a command squad, you would be able to take a ready action (load TOW) a move action and then a shoot action or, at the end of your previous turn, take a ready action and then make a move and shoot the next turn. :?:
Just a thought.
Once again Hiromoon top notch work. I really like the cards you've produced.
Hiromoon said:
The Bradleys or the Cav? :wink:
Hiromoon said:
I can see why the Bradleys are feared...being smaller than a tank they can fit themselves into some pretty tight places where a tanker wouldn't be looking for an armoured target with tank busting abilities. The only major draw back is the fact that you have to keep LOS on target as long as TOW is in the air...or are we talking about a fire and forget TOW which has been developped?
Hm... the Bradley is not really smaller - it is a very large vehicle (3 meters high, 3.6 meters wide - the Abrams is 2.4 meters high and 3.6 meters wide, so from the front Bradley presents a much larger target. It is 1.4 meters shorter, but that's all...). Bradley is bigger than T-xx series tanks.
Hiromoon - did you ask the Cav guys how long it does take to reload the TOW launcher and how easy is it to do under fire? In the case of most IFVs equipped with ATGM launchers you have to leave the vehicle in order to do so, so reloading is really possible after the combat, not during it. I'm not sure if that's also true in the case of Bradley, but I strongly suspect so... If an Abrams may fire only once per turn with its main gun (easy to reload, there was a topic on this somewhere on this board), than I guess the Bradley should have the two shots with its ready missiles and no more...
As for armor - according to the information available, the A2 version is protected against 30mm AP (I guess that its NATO 30mm - not russian 30mm which is comparable to most NATO 25mm rounds, but probably not GAU-8 30mm) and older RPGs... Should its armor give it Kill score equal to that of the Abrams (and Armour only 1 point lower)?
Hiromoon - did you ask the Cav guys how long it does take to reload the TOW launcher and how easy is it to do under fire? In the case of most IFVs equipped with ATGM launchers you have to leave the vehicle in order to do so, so reloading is really possible after the combat, not during it. I'm not sure if that's also true in the case of Bradley, but I strongly suspect so... If an Abrams may fire only once per turn with its main gun (easy to reload, there was a topic on this somewhere on this board), than I guess the Bradley should have the two shots with its ready missiles and no more...
As for armor - according to the information available, the A2 version is protected against 30mm AP (I guess that its NATO 30mm - not russian 30mm which is comparable to most NATO 25mm rounds, but probably not GAU-8 30mm) and older RPGs... Should its armor give it Kill score equal to that of the Abrams (and Armour only 1 point lower)?
dsfrankevo
Mongoose
Hiromoon said:
Having been a Mech Infantryman I can shed some light ....
- the M2 carries a dismount team of 6 troops and the basic TOW load is 7 - 2 missiles in the launcher and 5 in the racks inside the IFV
- the M3 Cav version has a 2 man dismount team and a basic TOW load of 10 - 2 in the launcher and 8 inside - truth be told, the additional TOW rack space is often used for other gear
BEFORE the TOW can fire the launcher must be erected - it rotates 90 degrees from the stowed/travel position to the "UP" firing position - the bradley doesn't move with the launcher in the "up" position -
Once the launcher fires the vehicle must stay stationary while the gunner "tracks" the target - keeping the crosshairs on the target - as the missile flies down range - flight time to the max range of 3750 meters is 20 seconds - believe me - this seems like FOREVER while you are watching and waiting for your missile to impact & hoping not to take return fire before impact
The second missile can be fired shortly after the first impacts - once the 2d TOW in the launcher is fired - the launcher must be dropped and reloaded from inside - this takes lots of time in a combat situation
For the Bradley to move again (without damaging the TOW launcher) the launcher must be dropped to the travel position
In game terms - I think it is absolutely necessary to take a ready action before firing - the argument can be made that a ready (or gun - fire) action must be taken before the Bradley can move again - I can also say at least 1 ready action would needed to reload a single missile in the launcher - after dropped to the travel position - this is pretty near impossible to do on the move
ATGMs are great stand off vehicle killers - but they are not "Offensive" weapon systems - these limitations are pretty much the same for all 1st and 2d generation ATGM systems
BTW the "Fire & Forget" TOW variant was abandoned in early testing in 2002 - no current plans to revive the project.
dsfrankevo
Mongoose
PilGrim said:
The manufacturer 'says' the Bradley can float - I served with a troop that had the distinction of sinking 2 bradleys in Germany - or was it the same bradley twice :? samey same in the end - needless to say Amphib river crossing ops with the M2 are a dicey proposition
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