Looking for some Lone Wolf RPG advice...

[Kal Sunrider]

I'm currently putting together a Lone Wolf RPG game; one with the aim of a long term campaign. I'm considering taking the group along a storyline loosely based around a mix of the original Lone Wolf gamebooks and the Wolf of Lone Wolf (e.g. Grey Star) gamebooks. There's some stuff I'm still trying to wrap my head around though and would greatly value some advice from those who have played or even better run this game already:

In the course of the gamebooks; Lone Wolf gains the Sommerswerd in the second book, "Fire on the Water"...but reading the description of the weapon in the main rulebook, it kind of seems that allowing the Kai Lord in my game to gain that powerful a weapon so early into the game would tremendously unbalance it; any ideas? I was actually considering something along the lines of the Darklords finding some way to "dampen" the powers of the Sommerswerd, and part of the campaign being the Kai Lord's quest to re-imbue it with power; basically it would grow with him as he levels up. If I were to do this, I would probably re-enact the scene at the end of FOTW where Darklord Zagarna is taken out, but perhaps have some form of "backlash" from the Darklord's death (perhaps caused by the use of the Sommerswerd by an inexperienced Kai Lord) that dampens the abilities of the Sommerswerd; that way while the Kai Lord is attempting to regain the full powers of the sword, the Darklands will be in chaos as the Darklords fight over control of Helegad, conveniently resolving their conflict when the group is high enough level to be taking them on (and high enough where the Sommerswerd does not unbalance the game).

I was also considering allowing one of the players to play a Shianti Sorcerer (from Magic of Magnamund); has anyone allowed one in their game? Did it drastically unbalance things? There would not be an Elder Magi in the game to be compared to the Shianti, so I'm mainly concerned with overall game balance here.

Last question; one of the players is considering playing a Wytch Childe. In the book it mentions that they commonly masquerade as something other then what they truly are...so what exactly would she claim to the rest of the party that she is? Suggestions are appreciated.

For those curious, the overall party looks to be shaping up thusly:

Kai Lord
Knight of Sommerlund
Wytch Child
Shianti Sorcerer

Thanks!

 

[The Wolf]

It could be numerous things, a wandering hermit, a beggar woman, even a pilgrim. You could ask the player of the character for their input. I find that letting players shape their characters like that makes them more likely to put effort into the roleplaying side of things. It gives them more attachment to the character as well.

 

[SilverOwl]

1) I like your idea on the damping of the SS... Although for purist reasons I would never run a parallel campaign line myself. If you wish to run similar to the books and have the authentic weapon on hand then i think you have the best idea in hand already. Have for instance the soul or something of Zagarna temporarily taint the blade (although in my own game that would not be feasible). If you don't dampen it though, my money is on it unbalancing the game to a degree.

Basically, what the SS does in the game books is allow LW to take on some foes "easily" that by all rights he should be struggling to face usefully... I would hazard that a fully powered SS in the hands of a L3 character or something would be the rough equivalent of making the character about 4 levels stronger.

While that's fine if you're intending to throw high-powered bad guys at the party and you need some heavy-duty weed-whackers, I have always felt that it's better to craft a campaign that grows on it's own rather than simply throwing power at the mix.

On the flip side of my more careful argument is the obvious fact that LW the gamebook itself is clearly designed to be epic from the word go, and is designed for a single player character, so the sword is more appropriate that way. So... if you want to keep the extremely high-danger feel, and need the "big gun" there as a backup, that might be one way to go. In which case you might consider various other options for limiting the use of the weapon to important events - perhaps a dying curse or similar that causes bad things to happen if the wielder uses it trivially.

Good luck with sorting out what you want from this one

2) I have had a player with a Shianti Sorceror in my party... And oddly enough, this class did not unbalance things in the levels played (1-8). The party did correctly identify the combat stereotype such a character represents though: the Fragile Nuker.
The character is currently on a sabbatical, and while the party misses the firepower in fights, the replacement characters work just fine and I have not had to adjust my encounters for a "suddenly weaker" party at all.

Oh yes: one warning in this vein: a Kai Lord quickly becomes the most-difficult character to put on the ground. Comparatively speaking, other classes tend to look a little flimsy next to them. So please be advised that in general, in any long-term fight with a dangerous foe, the odds are that the Kai Lord will be the last one standing. Of all the classes, THESE are probably the most unbalanced, especially if the character has MindBlast early on. Extra attacks _always_ stack up well in DnD and the Kai Lord is the one class that can get extra attacks on every front.

It also has unbeatable damage reduction (see Sixth Sense level 2 I think it is) so you need to see if you can get an experienced or mature player for this role as it becomes easy to be "superior" with this character.

As to what yourt Wytch Chylde masquerades as: I would recommend an NPC class as well. She could pretend to be an "Expert" in a given area, or simply a humble "Adept" without too much trouble. I expanded the paths available to mine as I felt the background descriptions and the available paths did not match up well for them...

Even with various other options and a few perks worked in though, this class is one of the weakest at lower levels. They gain big later, but my best advice to you would be to warn your players HARD in advance that LW character classes are NOT "roughly balanced" at each level of XP.

They should not be expecting to be "roughly comparable" to their companions, they should simply be looking to enjoy a roleplaying experience in an amazing world, and contribute what they can in the little ways they can to a larger story.

In particular, depending how your campaign runs, I see the following being true:

Levels 1-3
Kai and Knight are about the same if the kai does not take all the combat options.
Sorceror has greater firepower and endurance than the Wytch. Wytch is likely useless in most fights without Keys, and even with keys is limited assistance. Usefulness comes from out-of-combat contributions most likely.

Levels 4-6
Kai steadily starts to pull away from Knight both in durability and damage ability and this gap will never close, only widen.

I have a feeling that there will be little change in the balance of power here. And in fact most Wytches would be feeling a little frustrated I suspect. The Sorceror steadily gains more utility out of combat with Elder Arts. while the power gains for Wytches are pretty slow, while in combat the Sorceror can use that Staff to devastating effect and even though it's not doing any more damage than it did at level 1, it's still the most damaging weapon on the battlefield.

Levels 7-10
Depending on his Combat Disciplines, a Kai Lord can be starting to do as much as a Shianti on a per-round basis now, to unshielded targets (and unshielded are more common than shielded foes). Everything starts to snowball and stack for them and failing Saves is starting to become very hard for the foes they are facing now.

Basically, Wytches are going to remain fairly weak in comparison but if they have a decent key or two they might be able to unleash the occasional piece of surprise devastation now. They will fall behind again as Shianti gain Greater Arts but are only going to get their real inheritances from about level 17 onwards.

And the Knight will be a hitpoint sink and steadily getting better at what he does... but his progress will seem very pale in comparison to the things that can be done with Kai "Weapon Mastery".

So... as long as your players are expecting that, you should be fine.

 

[Balgin Stondraeg]

but reading the description of the weapon in the main rulebook, it kind of seems that allowing the Kai Lord in my game to gain that powerful a weapon so early into the game would tremendously unbalance it; any ideas?

Actualy it's not as unbalancing as you think. I persoanly played through the first 6 books using the Lone Wolf d20 rpg. Some of the encounters (like Darklord Haakon at the end of book 5) were nigh on impossible (even taking into account the number of eps Darklord Haakon had lost from being outside the Darklands for a week or two he was still a very dangerous foe). Some of the other encounters (like the crystal frostwyrm, the kalkoths and assorted other stuff) were equaly nasty too.

The biggest surprise was the six or seven brigands ambushing Lone Wolf in book 6. They rushed out from behind the wall and tried to pull him from the saddle (with something like 6 assisting for a +12 grapple bonus). He was pulled down from the saddle and really struggled to survive that encounter considering the fact that they were only second level warriors (and he was a 12 or 13th level kai lord).

Last question; one of the players is considering playing a Wytch Childe. In the book it mentions that they commonly masquerade as something other then what they truly are...so what exactly would she claim to the rest of the party that she is? Suggestions are appreciated.

Just a traveller, refugee, or simply a person from Shadkai. Sometimes it's healthy to remember that class names and game rules are an out of character concept.

 

[Kal Sunrider]

Hmm...lots of good information in all of the posts so far and I appreciate the responses. So far, I've been doing some thinking as well since I've made the original post, and I think I have a bit of this worked out; as far as the Sommerswerd, I was thinking of something along the lines of Zagarna tainting or cursing it somehow as he is vanquished; something along the lines of a "death curse"...the Zagarna equivilent of Vashna pulling Ulnar into the Maakengorge with him. Right there is the basis for a quest to try and discover a way to "repower" the Sommerswerd...with lots of side-quests and distractions along the way of course. I could even, if I feel the situation demands it, allow the blade short "spurts" of it's former glory as they go, such as during the battle against Haakon. But allowing the characters to slowly, "recharge" the sword as they go, so that as the Kai Lord grows, the sword will "regrow" with him.

As for the mindblast being so powerful...I may re-read the description *very* carefully and if necessary I can always apply "house-rules" so that the Kai Lord doesn't overdominate the party.

Perhaps for the Witch-Chyld, I can give her something to help her be more useful in combat; nothing unbalancing, but something just enough that the player feels like she can still contribute and get a few good hits in. Any suggestions?

 

[beowuuf]

From an outside perspective (not experienced this in game yet) the psionics psychic combat in the LWRPG seems to be quite insanely biased towards this being ultimately powerful. Rare opponents are shielded, and if they are, they can also lay waste to the party with their mind. Willpower is drained if you have it, few normal classes have shields, and otherwise other classes just watch their EP bleed away

Compare it to the gamebooks, where any determined fighter or powerful mage has high psychics defenses - you perhaps want a house rule that allows for more shielding by otherwise on-psychics (a weaker psychic AC, or perhaps a certain attack mode needed) for both monsters and the party


as for the sommerswerd, maybe you can go the lorestones route - somehow, because of some forseen danger, the sommerswerd trancefers its power temporarily into one party member, which only manifests in a much heightened skill, etc. Maybe even a knowledge skill!

Like the lorestones, time is required to recharge the sommerswerd, to allow the energy to slowly bleed back into the blade. Maybe the knowledge is needed to make the intuitive leaps to guide the quest, and as each point is reached, the sommerswerds power slwly trickles back to the sword,dd so wthe weapon regains power but knowing what to do next rest more on the shoulders of the party.

Like Lone Wolf knowing 'Herdos' for the next location when touching the lorestone of varetta, but imagine by the last lorestone (Gnaag not happening) he required study of histories and text with no divine clues given

 

[Kal Sunrider]

Interesting that you mentioned Lorestones; I was just thinking of that as maybe a method of "recharging" the Sommerswerd. Something like; the sword gets drained, and initially the party has no idea how to revive it. Eventually, they recover the Book of the Magnakai. Then I "retcon" a wee bit, and perhaps they find a passage in the book about how it was once prophicied that the Sommerswerd would one day be "cursed" by the dying breath of a Darklord, and that the only way to lift the curse would be to recover the lost lorestones? It could make the quests to recover them even that much more important! Like when the Kai Lord finally gets the first Lorestone, as he gains it's wisdom, he feels an urge to draw the Sommerswerd and touch it to the Lorestone. When he does, there's an arc of energy from the stone to the blade, and the party immediatly notices that the blade has regained a portion of it's flame! It defnitely has a dramatic flair to it I think, and would give me a good method to gradually empower the sword as the party levels up.

As for the Wytch, I had an idea I was just about to post when I saw the newest reply; what about making one rank of each Ritual Path able to be used as a full-round action rather then following the usual ritual casting rules? I think if I restrict it to the lower levels it wouldn't make the character overpowered, and would still preserve the usefulness of Power Stones as they would be needed to use the upper level ranks in combat. I'm thinking of using the following:

Astralis Majora: Rank II
Baleful Lore: Rank I
Death and Unlife: Rank II
Flames of the Ancients: Rank I
Hallowed Paths: IV (higher then the rest, but it's duration is measured in *minutes*, so it's worthless unless you know you're about to be attacked, and nothing lower then this level would be viable in combat anyway)
The Many Ways of Going: Rank II
Passion: None (This just does not seem like a path that *should* really be combat viable, at least not without Power Stones and prep time)

Thoughts on all this?

Notes: As the Wytch would have little to no access to a Sanctum or Cabal (due to the highly nomadic aspect of the campaign I have planned, no other Wytch players, and the lack of Wytch NPCs in the North where the campaign will begin and largely take place for much of the early to mid levels of the campaign), I do feel somewhat obligated to "throw her a bone" so to speak.

 

[SilverOwl]

I would be tempted to recommend to the player that they make a concerted effort to try and never use their powers at all.

It will require a mature player to actively accept the role of a "NPC-powered" class on the surface while cultivating other skills and abilities secretly and trying to keep them hidden from the rest of the party. Sometimes such social interactions can be pretty cool to play as well, but it depends a bit on teh dynamics of your play group.

I had quite a lot of fun to start with with the Shianti Sorceror in my party because she was trying to hide her light under a bushel as well - and joined the party as a cook, no more nor less.

Imagine the surprise and shock of the party when they're hip deep in bandits and people like the Sage are dropping left and right like flies and the Vakeros Knight is struggling to stay afloat in a sea of angry blades when suddenly THE COOK steps in to save the day...

Some careful equipment choices and Skill spends as well as one's dress and appearance in the game can add a lot of mystery but also a lot of functionality to a character that might not have originally thoguht about those options.

 

[Kal Sunrider]

I was laying in bed last night thinking about the Wytch Chyld, and I may have hit upon a radical solution (albit one that might only work in my game): the player agreed to let me have a little bit of fun as a DM; her character's grandmother is a Shadakine Wytch in service to Shasarak, and at the beginning of the game, she's basically hopped on the first boat out of Shadakine, which winds up taking her to Sommerlund (I'm going to be using Dawn of Destruction for the first adventure if anyone's interested.) What the player is allowing me to do though, is the character knows next to nothing about her actual parents. So I was thinking; her mother is also a Wytch Chyld, but one that was captured and subjugated by her mother (the player's grandmother). Basically, after her capture, the PC's grandmother attempted to corrupt the PC's mother. In the process of resisting, the PC's mother's mind essentially broke and she became little more then a vegtable. Not wanting her line to end, she kept the PC's mother alive in this state for some years. During that time, she was impreginated by...well, I don't know yet. But something or someone that makes her a little bit more then human. Basically, one of the things I plan on doing with this character is have her constantly tempted both passively, and sometimes overtly by her grandmother to essentially turn on the party and switch her allegiance. So I was thinking of her father being something or somebody that gives her some special power or ability, but one that comes at a price. Something that will raise her power level just a little to bring her in line a bit with the Shianti and the Kai Lord, but also give me a sneaky little way to tempt her a bit. I haven't come to a total decision yet, so suggestions are welcome.

PS: I got the idea about temptation from re-reading the first Grey Star book, where Tanith is tempted by Mother Magri through the campfire/kazim stone (depending on if you took the stone), and I thought I could basically take that to the next level.

 

[Greg Smith]

I was laying in bed last night thinking about the Wytch Chyld,

We don't want to know about your fanatsies, thank you! :twisted:

 

[Kal Sunrider]

I was laying in bed last night thinking about the Wytch Chyld,

We don't want to know about your fanatsies, thank you! :twisted:

Ha ha, very funny :lol: Is it my fault that I think about my campaign when I'm trying to fall asleep?

 

[darkadder]

When Sixth Sense is used on the SS when you first take hold of it in Fire On The Water, the book actually states that its power will fade if anyone but a Kai Lord wields it.

You could even have something like this happen in a funny way - like they surprise a Noodnic trying to steal it or something and he heaves it toward the characters, thus "wielding it" and draining it's powers.

A primary quest could then be for them to appeal to Kai to re-imbue the SS, or some such thing.