Libraries

[Jak Nazryth]

I'm not anywhere near my books, but people in my gaming group were discussing the 4 ton library, and that it can be utilized by any number of people. Is that true? If so, if you used a half-sized library, would a limit of 8 people per shift be appropriate?
I can check on my books is 5 or 6 hours time, but I'm in a non-traveller-board email exchange with one of my players, and wanted to see if anyone was near their books.
Thanks.

 

[DFW]

I'm not anywhere near my books, but people in my gaming group were discussing the 4 ton library, and that it can be utilized by any number of people. Is that true? If so, if you used a half-sized library, would a limit of 8 people per shift be appropriate?
I can check on my books is 5 or 6 hours time, but I'm in a non-traveller-board email exchange with one of my players, and wanted to see if anyone was near their books.
Thanks.

The rules don't mention how many can use it.

Library: A library room contains computer files as well as lecterns,
display screens, holotanks and even hard copies of books. A good
library is useful for both research and passing time in jump space.
Having a library on board a ship gives one extra week of training
time for new skills per week spent in jump space.

I have no idea what a "holotank" is of how large that is... However, for Mcr4, it better quite advanced...

 

[Jak Nazryth]

I suppose since the rule does not say in writing any kind of limitation of users, my player is taking that to mean unlimited people using it.
I guess there can be a reasonable rule of thumb of how many people (ie. players) can train/use the library during jump travel. My first thought is 2 people per ton, but they can use it in shifts, 3 shifts in a standard 24 hour period. Or am I being to particular?
The only reason I'm bringing it up is that I'm trying to shave 4 tons off somewhere. I've already installed a half-sized med bay (only 1 bed and half the price as per the rules) and I don't think there should be a problem of installing a half-sized library.

 

[DFW]

I suppose since the rule does not say in writing any kind of limitation of users, my player is taking that to mean unlimited people using it.
I guess there can be a reasonable rule of thumb of how many people (ie. players) can train/use the library during jump travel. My first thought is 2 people per ton, but they can use it in shifts, 3 shifts in a standard 24 hour period. Or am I being to particular?
The only reason I'm bringing it up is that I'm trying to shave 4 tons off somewhere. I've already installed a half-sized med bay (only 1 bed and half the price as per the rules) and I don't think there should be a problem of installing a half-sized library.

To be honest, other than the "holotank", training can be done at any terminal in a stateroom. If it requires something else, a ship position workstation can be placed in "training mode". Other than entertainment holotank, I don't see the need for a library...

 

[Jak Nazryth]

Agreed on types of terminals, but per the rules, it doubles the amount of training on skills each person can do per week. That is it's only "real" use in the game mechanics, and my players want one on their ship. I'm just trying to come up with a reasonable number of people who can use the library at the same time.

 

[DFW]

Agreed on types of terminals, but per the rules, it doubles the amount of training on skills each person can do per week. That is it's only "real" use in the game mechanics, and my players want one on their ship. I'm just trying to come up with a reasonable number of people who can use the library at the same time.

I'd say that the "Tank" is 1 ton. So, maybe 5 people in the entire library at a time..

 

[Jak Nazryth]

I'd say that the "Tank" is 1 ton. So, maybe 5 people in the entire library at a time..

What on earth do you thing the "tank" is? I'm guessing its a virtual reality "box" you can sit/stand in to practice almost any kind of skill, combat, driving, piloting, etc... kinda like a personal sized holo-deck from Star Trek?

 

[DFW]

I'd say that the "Tank" is 1 ton. So, maybe 5 people in the entire library at a time..

What on earth do you thing the "tank" is? I'm guessing its a virtual reality "box" you can sit/stand in to practice almost any kind of skill, combat, driving, piloting, etc... kinda like a personal sized holo-deck from Star Trek?

That's my thought given that the entire library is only 4 tons. Only, the created objects have no solidity as that requires "matter replicator tech".

 

[rust]

What on earth do you thing the "tank" is?

In other science fiction a "holotank" usually is a three dimensional display,
used to show for example a three dimensional star "chart", the movement
of starships in space or whatever three dimensional object a person is in-
terested in, like a CT of the human body.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

For a half-sized library I would say 2 people max at the same time inside the library, but for portions of reading/research a player can access the library from most terminals on board. Only one person at a time though in the holo-tank. But for sheer game mechanics weather you are inside the library using the terminal itself, or linked in from some other ship-board terminal, I suggest 2 people max per 8 hour shift for each ton of library space. So my suggested half-sized library can allow up to 12 people to train in a standard 24 hour day. While in jump, players would take shifts anyway so a half sized library should be plenty large enough to allow for the training advantage a library grants under the game mechanics.

 

[rust]

I still do not quite get it. If the learning is done with computers, it can be
done at almost any terminal outside of the library as well, and if it is done
with books, these books can be removed from the library for reading them
in almost any other room. Except for the holotank I see no convincing rea-
son why anyone should have to stay at the library for learning.

 

[DFW]

I still do not quite get it. If the learning is done with computers, it can be
done at almost any terminal outside of the library as well, and if it is done
with books, these books can be removed from the library for reading them
in almost any other room. Except for the holotank I see no convincing rea-
son why anyone should have to stay at the library for learning.

Plus, why in the hell would such a facility cost MCr4? Truly bizarre

 

[phavoc]

A holotank, as far as I recall in most sci-fi, is simply a 3-D display system. For some it actually has a 'tank' fixture. Most books and movies have it being like a pedestal whereby the user is able to walk around the visual display which gives it depth. It might also be mounted on the ceiling and then display downwards toward the floor. I'm sure TL 9+ it would give you options like being able to display ala a planetarium. You probably could walk throug the displays as well.

It most likely has more gee-whiz factor the higher the TL of the ship.

 

[alex_greene]

I would imagine data storage from around TL 9+ getting silly, along the lines of exabytes of data in data storage media that take the form of diamonds the size of grains of sand.

You could have Library Data spanning the known universe in a single flash drive, accessible from a PADD the size of a mobile phone. Add a psionic interface at TL 14, and that PADD could be the size of a necklace pendant, key fob, unusually large signet ring, earring or nose stud.

 

[phavoc]

I would imagine data storage from around TL 9+ getting silly, along the lines of exabytes of data in data storage media that take the form of diamonds the size of grains of sand.

You could have Library Data spanning the known universe in a single flash drive, accessible from a PADD the size of a mobile phone. Add a psionic interface at TL 14, and that PADD could be the size of a necklace pendant, key fob, unusually large signet ring, earring or nose stud.

One thing to remember is that as space becomes available, methods are created to use all of that space. But you are right, every book known, every song, etc can easily be taken with you. The hard thing then becomes how in the hell do you find all that stuff?

 

[DFW]

The hard thing then becomes how in the hell do you find all that stuff?

Equally high tech library science software.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

Every one of you bring up great points on some of the silly factor. Maybe I should suggest a larger grouping of people using the library?
In any case, here is the game mechanic facts. For 4MC you can buy a box that allows players to learn skills at twice the normal rate. It wont do much good (except as an i intellectual discussion) to figure out why and how it works withing the game mechanics. It just is. Anyway, do you think 2 people per ton is to little using the library? Maybe 4 people per ton?
In the end this is all me trying to figure out the capacity of a full sized library since I want to create a half sized library. Med-bays' are easy. Half the beds, half the cost. Libraries therefore should be theoretically just as easy; half the size, half the capacity, half the cost.
Since there is no indication of how many can use the library, I as a GM have to come up with a reasonable number.
4 people per ton at any one time? That counts as total users inside the room itself or linked in from a remote station.

 

[rust]

Libraries therefore should be theoretically just as easy; half the size, half the capacity, half the cost.

... half the subjects and skills covered by the library ? :wink:

Sorry, but this entire library thing is really silly, and searching for a logi-
cal way to determine the capacities of an illogical facility leads nowhere.
Just use 1d6 to determine how many people can use it at a time.

 

[alex_greene]

The hard thing then becomes how in the hell do you find all that stuff?

Very efficient sorting and searching algorithms.

Guess where a knowledge of higher mathematics suddenly becomes a most essential tool ...

 

[GypsyComet]

As the TL goes up the Library will adapt to your own search tendencies, either accentuating them or compensating for them. As with ship's controls, the user interface will be configurable to suit the user's preferences. Some will want the wall of text, others the holographic synapse web, others the icon wall (per the Jurassic Park movie), and others still the talking head (A.I.) or the Virtual Library Shelves.

Put the hardware to handle all of these in one place and you see the user limits per installed ton start to make sense.