Large Bay Weapons Fix

[Solomani666]

Large Bay Weapons seem seriously underpowered in my opinion.

I'm considering a house rule that I would like your opinions on.
This is for beam weapons only as torpedo and missile bays already have their own advantages built in.

Given that Spinal mount weapons are DD x 1000 (Highguard p.28)

I propose that:
All Large Bay beam weapons receive an automatic DD rating (x 10)
All Large Bay beam weapons with a current DD rating are upgraded to (x 100)
(Note: The large bay +1 per D damage is ignored using this rule.)

What is your opinion on this?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Large bays could use a boost, but this is too much.

As far as I have understood Mongoose's intentions:
A) Spinals should do more damage than the same weight in bays.
B) Capital ships should not be easily disabled by critical hits.


Example: A large particle bay does 8D, with your system 8DD. That is 8 × (3,5 + 1) × 10 = 360 damage, after armour 345 damage. That could crit up to about 75 000 dT ships. It would be on average 345 / 500 ≈ 0,7 damage / dTon weapon. A spinal does 3,5 × 1000 × 0,55 / 3500 ≈ 0,55 damage / dTon weapon. With the new system large bays are much better than spinals, not good.

 

[Solomani666]

Addendum: New house rule ignores the +1 per damage die

500 Ton Bay Particle Weapon:
28 (avg. die roll) x 10 = 280 Damage
280 Damage per 500 dTon

3500 Ton Spinal Particle Weapon:
3.5 (avg. die roll) * 1000 = 3500 Damage
3500 dTon / 7 = 500 Damage per 500 dTon

That's nearly twice the average damage per dTon.
Seems about right to me.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

How much damage does bays actually do?

Take the workhorse particle bay.
A medium bay does 8D damage. With a total DM +4 on the attack and 15 armour deducted that is an average of 15 damage.
A large bay does 8D damage (+1/die, +3 attack). With a total DM +7 on the attack and armour 15 deducted that is an average of 27 damage.

If you double the damage from the large bay it would do average 69 damage after armour. This almost 5 times the damage from a medium bay, which is reasonable, but it still has +3 attack so will be much better under adverse conditions, such as very long range.


If we take the fearsome fusion bay instead:
A medium bay does 2DD damage. With a total DM +4 on the attack and 15 armour deducted that is an average of 50 damage.
A large bay does 2DD damage (+1/die, +3 attack). With a total DM +7 on the attack and armour 15 deducted that is an average of 75 damage.

If we double the damage it would do an average of 165 damage after armour.
If we triple the damage it would do an average of 255 damage after armour, about 5 times the damage of the medium bay and threatening to crit ships up to ~50 000 dT, clearly better than the medium bay.


Perhaps it would be reasonable to say that a large bay should multiply its damage by 2,5?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Addendum: New house rule ignores the +1 per damage die

500 Ton Bay Particle Weapon:
28 (avg. die roll) x 10 = 280 Damage
280 Damage per 500 dTon

3500 Ton Spinal Particle Weapon:
3.5 (avg. die roll) * 1000 = 3500 Damage
3500 dTon / 7 = 500 Damage per 500 dTon

That's nearly twice the average damage per dTon.
Seems about right to me.

You forget armour.

Large particle bay: 28 × 10 - 15 = 265 damage or 0,53 damage / dT.
Particle spinal: 3,5 × 1000 × 0,55 = 1925 damage or 0,55 damage / dT.

A bunch of large bays can be fired at several targets, will hit more often, and can easily overwhelm the target's dodging, so are clearly superior...

The bays have Very Long range, the spinal has Long range, another big advantage for the bays.
The bays can fire at smaller targets, like frigates and even fighters, another advantage.

All in all you have obsoleted the spinal...

 

[Solomani666]

You forget armour.

Large particle bay: 28 × 10 - 15 = 265 damage or 0,53 damage / dT.
Particle spinal: 3,5 × 1000 × 0,55 = 1925 damage or 0,55 damage / dT.

A bunch of large bays can be fired at several targets, will hit more often, and can easily overwhelm the target's dodging, so are clearly superior...

The bays have Very Long range, the spinal has Long range, another big advantage for the bays.
The bays can fire at smaller targets, like frigates and even fighters, another advantage.

All in all you have obsoleted the spinal...

Where does the 0.55 come from?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Where does the 0.55 come from?

Particle Spinal Mount: The largest version of a weapon whose development started with humble barbette-based systems, particle spinal mounts are a mainstay of the most powerful navies. The damage dealt by a particle spinal mount is reduced by 3% per point of armour possessed by the target.

HG, p29.

Armour 15 × 3% = 45%.
100% - 45% = 55%

 

[Solomani666]

HG, p29.
Armour 15 × 3% = 45%.
100% - 45% = 55%

Using my house rule, Spinal Mount Particle weapons and Large Bay Particle weapons do tend to approach the same base damage per ton, but only at the extreme high end of armor values.

Since only 2 ships have the size and armor rating to make your calculations significant, I can live with that.