waylandson
Mongoose
Matt,
Is Moongoose going to be releasing an Alien Module on the K'Kree is the near future?
Waylandson
Is Moongoose going to be releasing an Alien Module on the K'Kree is the near future?
Waylandson
K'Kree
- Thread starter waylandson
- Start date
RandyT0001
Mongoose
impala said:
Yes, they are rather tasty ground up and grilled over open flame, topped with mayo, mustard, ketchup, and pickle on a sesame seed flour bun served with a SolaCola. I always thought it was a terrible travesty that GDW put the K'Kree on the opposite side of the Imperium from the Aslan. Boy those two would have made for wonderful neighbors.
Techno-Guru
Mongoose
Hmmm, I always wondered how you were supposed to handle the herd psychology of a K'Kree. Exile would be a death sentence, the Drifter career unheard of amongst their people, and what do you do with one player who wants to be a K'Kree?
Indeed, one has to wonder how the Imperium functions at all surrounded by enemies and alien races that hate other alien races parked on the other side of those pesky hairless apes...:wink:
But then we wouldn't have the delicious irony of the Imperium being a tennis net for a matchup between militant herbivores and the setting's equivalent of the Klingons.RandyT0001 said:Yes, they are rather tasty ground up and grilled over open flame, topped with mayo, mustard, ketchup, and pickle on a sesame seed flour bun served with a SolaCola. I always thought it was a terrible travesty that GDW put the K'Kree on the opposite side of the Imperium from the Aslan. Boy those two would have made for wonderful neighbors.
Indeed, one has to wonder how the Imperium functions at all surrounded by enemies and alien races that hate other alien races parked on the other side of those pesky hairless apes...:wink:
Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
Monkey see, monkey do.
Techno-Guru said:
One way of doing it is to have the player play an "insane" K'kree....
Keep in mind: Not only do K'kree have prejudices towards others, you can detail what others think of K'kree.
The insane centaur would not only have to have a tolerance for meat-eaters, but a tolerance for more enclosed spaces.
If the player is going to have his character romping through 3I Space, consider the following:
1. Initial reaction by others.
2. The fact that no furniture fits.
3. Starship staterooms being too damn small.
4. Those custom vacc suits tend to run for a very pretty credit.
5. Thumbprint scanners can't read hooves properly....
I can go on, and I am sure others here can add to the list.....
The trick with K'kree is that everyone in the player group needs to think K'kree... namely, every player cooperates for the benefit of the group and no one tries to take advantage of someone else to get the upper hand. If the GM can trust each player to keep track of the individual members of his or her family, it becomes much easier.
GM: "Impala, do you have any Servants down towards the strip mall? You've got the guy who collects human sports equipment, right?"
Impala: "Yeah, he's window shopping with two of the Patriarch's wives. Why?"
GM: "He needs to make a "Spot Hostile Gunman" task roll..."
The one time I played my K'kree character, I made a Family Tracking Chart, a full page for every encounter we went through, just so no one got lost...
GM: "Impala, do you have any Servants down towards the strip mall? You've got the guy who collects human sports equipment, right?"
Impala: "Yeah, he's window shopping with two of the Patriarch's wives. Why?"
GM: "He needs to make a "Spot Hostile Gunman" task roll..."
The one time I played my K'kree character, I made a Family Tracking Chart, a full page for every encounter we went through, just so no one got lost...
Techno-Guru
Mongoose
Grendel_T_Troll said:
- A ticked off chef could serve him a steak instead of a salad
- Weapons have to be custom built to his appendages
- Armor also needs to be tailored to his dimensions
- Merchants could lecture him for hours about which items are made from animal products and go into graphic detail describing how they were made
yeah, there's a list. Personally though I was wondering how he would take to be seperated from the "herd"? MGT describes K'Kree as thinking of themselves in the context of a group and falling ill if seperated from other K'Kree for a length of time, I'm not sure if that is the case with other versions, so what do you do with the one player who wants to play a K'Kree? NPC family?
The K'kree are a race of herbivores whose struggle against their main predator pushed them onto the path of sentience.
Why didn't the predator keep up in the evolutionary arms races and develop intelligence too?... Was the K'kree's rise too quick to be measured on such time scales? Did one or more suddenly discover weapons ala 2001 monolith scene.....
What new predator took the old one's place in the food web?...did the K'kree eliminate all predators capable of eating them?
How would that have affected the ecology?
If the K'kree's rise was too quick for the old predator to evolve along with them, then the K'kree must have an unchanged birthrate which, based on trophic levels, is 10 times greater ( in terms of biomass ) than the newly extinct predator.
Wouldn't that give rise to wild population shifts between growth and die-offs such as in the Mote in God's Eye moties?
Or would they enforce draconian birth control policies.....
Or would they through social engineering, create artificially high death rates* in the absence of predation.....
Or would they simply expand through space like locusts destroying eco-systems wherever they go wrecking a world's food webs by the extermination of carnivores....
* that they should continue to develop weaponry even after ridding themselves of pesky predators would probably indicate an easy willingness to wage war on each other...
....for pasture-land as populations grow out of control?
From the 'traveller integrated timeline';
... their world is bathed in high energy particles and radiation from a nearby supernova (GDW, 1984) and the world has a large meteor impact ( SJG, 1999) which may account for mutation and massive change in the enviroment.
... the first k'kree cities existed several thousand years before the start of the systematic extermination of carnivores. These cities were a method of defense during competition with predators which almost drove them to extinction ( DPG,1993). This, as well as the beginning of the systematic extermination of all carnivores on their world, occurred before the arrival of the Droashav, so they did not affect the k'kree's rise to sentience (imho) even if the arrival of the Droasav did spur technological innovation. By the time the K'kree began their war against the remaining Droashav, they had attained tech 9 and grav drives (DGP, 1993).
But none of that addresses the birthrate issue, nor the willful destruction of worlds' eco-systems beyond "they hate meat-eaters".
I think treating them as having population growth and declines like moties is interesting except that in this case, they can spread, and will unless bottled up in a region of space until they collapse; perhaps different 'herds' colonize collapsed worlds to gain territory for food production, etc. until they too are either overrun or crash in wars over resources.
That suits me better than the senseless "kill all meat-eaters" trope that ignores the effects of destroyed eco-systems and decimated food-webs... they're like livestock overgrazing a pasture, leaving it pretty much barren...... except they do it to entire worlds.
If they're grazers, why do they have hands? Its not like they're depicted as being able to reach higher on trees, etc, like an elephant's trunk. Could it be that sentience requires 'hands' ( or some other form of grabbing things ) in order to manipulate the environment?
===================
Omnivores in the past?
Forced cannibalism for sake of survival sparked a violent reaction and deep racial shame of eating meat?
In response to this suggestion....
===================
I don't think its believable that the k'kree were once omnivores that occasionally ate meat, given what has been written about them. They were supposedly descended from large herbivorous, grazing plains-dwellers, although their hands might indicate a gathering lifestyle.
Or if they did eat meat on occasion, scavenging
The events of their war with that pesky predator last several thousand years during which time they built cities for defense and ending with the concept of total extermination of all carnivores*.
Over such a long period of time, I don't think there would be any long term shame of cannibalism. Given that species survival was on the line, it may have become a matter of individual pride to give themselves for the survival of their race. Maybe the beginnings of such ideas were carried over if scavenging did occur. That may have influenced religious beliefs and attitudes towards the dead and the role of individuals within the greater community.
That would be a step away from humans-in-rubber-suits by given them cultural beliefs that are out of step with what we think of as normal for humans. They could rationalize the eating of the dead as being separate from hunting down and eating live prey. Perhaps this is carried over into OTU times as ritual cannibalism only.
It makes them less human and somewhat dark/morbid until the ritual meanings of the cannibalism are known ( sacrifice for the race, honoring the dead and connecting the cycle of life-death )
I'm afraid I feel that the "shame" issue unnecessarily forces 'normal' human ideals upon this alien race and makes them less alien.
I also feel this doesn't really help with explaining how the loss of predation would affect their population growth if they haven't cut their birthrate down to match natural morbidity from age. Perhaps there might be ritual suicide for the betterment of the herd in conjunction with ritual cannibalism? How about the ritual infanticide of those who are deemed weak or scrawny ( how do the K'kree feel about Eugenics?...selective breeding for the betterment of their race? )?
Of course this would occur only in the absence of war or with additional territories such that population densities can be kept under control.
* There are instances where omnivores that occasionally eat meat are lumped in with carnivores to be exterminated. This ideal of total extermination of meat-eaters changed after the Hiver manipulations but is secretly held by most K'kree.
===============
Why didn't the predator keep up in the evolutionary arms races and develop intelligence too?... Was the K'kree's rise too quick to be measured on such time scales? Did one or more suddenly discover weapons ala 2001 monolith scene.....
What new predator took the old one's place in the food web?...did the K'kree eliminate all predators capable of eating them?
How would that have affected the ecology?
If the K'kree's rise was too quick for the old predator to evolve along with them, then the K'kree must have an unchanged birthrate which, based on trophic levels, is 10 times greater ( in terms of biomass ) than the newly extinct predator.
Wouldn't that give rise to wild population shifts between growth and die-offs such as in the Mote in God's Eye moties?
Or would they enforce draconian birth control policies.....
Or would they through social engineering, create artificially high death rates* in the absence of predation.....
Or would they simply expand through space like locusts destroying eco-systems wherever they go wrecking a world's food webs by the extermination of carnivores....
* that they should continue to develop weaponry even after ridding themselves of pesky predators would probably indicate an easy willingness to wage war on each other...
....for pasture-land as populations grow out of control?
From the 'traveller integrated timeline';
... their world is bathed in high energy particles and radiation from a nearby supernova (GDW, 1984) and the world has a large meteor impact ( SJG, 1999) which may account for mutation and massive change in the enviroment.
... the first k'kree cities existed several thousand years before the start of the systematic extermination of carnivores. These cities were a method of defense during competition with predators which almost drove them to extinction ( DPG,1993). This, as well as the beginning of the systematic extermination of all carnivores on their world, occurred before the arrival of the Droashav, so they did not affect the k'kree's rise to sentience (imho) even if the arrival of the Droasav did spur technological innovation. By the time the K'kree began their war against the remaining Droashav, they had attained tech 9 and grav drives (DGP, 1993).
But none of that addresses the birthrate issue, nor the willful destruction of worlds' eco-systems beyond "they hate meat-eaters".
I think treating them as having population growth and declines like moties is interesting except that in this case, they can spread, and will unless bottled up in a region of space until they collapse; perhaps different 'herds' colonize collapsed worlds to gain territory for food production, etc. until they too are either overrun or crash in wars over resources.
That suits me better than the senseless "kill all meat-eaters" trope that ignores the effects of destroyed eco-systems and decimated food-webs... they're like livestock overgrazing a pasture, leaving it pretty much barren...... except they do it to entire worlds.
If they're grazers, why do they have hands? Its not like they're depicted as being able to reach higher on trees, etc, like an elephant's trunk. Could it be that sentience requires 'hands' ( or some other form of grabbing things ) in order to manipulate the environment?
===================
Omnivores in the past?
Forced cannibalism for sake of survival sparked a violent reaction and deep racial shame of eating meat?
In response to this suggestion....
===================
I don't think its believable that the k'kree were once omnivores that occasionally ate meat, given what has been written about them. They were supposedly descended from large herbivorous, grazing plains-dwellers, although their hands might indicate a gathering lifestyle.
Or if they did eat meat on occasion, scavenging
The events of their war with that pesky predator last several thousand years during which time they built cities for defense and ending with the concept of total extermination of all carnivores*.
Over such a long period of time, I don't think there would be any long term shame of cannibalism. Given that species survival was on the line, it may have become a matter of individual pride to give themselves for the survival of their race. Maybe the beginnings of such ideas were carried over if scavenging did occur. That may have influenced religious beliefs and attitudes towards the dead and the role of individuals within the greater community.
That would be a step away from humans-in-rubber-suits by given them cultural beliefs that are out of step with what we think of as normal for humans. They could rationalize the eating of the dead as being separate from hunting down and eating live prey. Perhaps this is carried over into OTU times as ritual cannibalism only.
It makes them less human and somewhat dark/morbid until the ritual meanings of the cannibalism are known ( sacrifice for the race, honoring the dead and connecting the cycle of life-death )
I'm afraid I feel that the "shame" issue unnecessarily forces 'normal' human ideals upon this alien race and makes them less alien.
I also feel this doesn't really help with explaining how the loss of predation would affect their population growth if they haven't cut their birthrate down to match natural morbidity from age. Perhaps there might be ritual suicide for the betterment of the herd in conjunction with ritual cannibalism? How about the ritual infanticide of those who are deemed weak or scrawny ( how do the K'kree feel about Eugenics?...selective breeding for the betterment of their race? )?
Of course this would occur only in the absence of war or with additional territories such that population densities can be kept under control.
* There are instances where omnivores that occasionally eat meat are lumped in with carnivores to be exterminated. This ideal of total extermination of meat-eaters changed after the Hiver manipulations but is secretly held by most K'kree.
===============
waylandson
Mongoose
I have to be honest, the reason I was asking about the K'Kree is that I am devolpoing an alternate Traveller Universe set about a 150 years ago in which the K'Kree or as they are more comonly know by humans as "Cents" are the main enemy race faced by humans.
In my campaign setting the Cent's came to Earth in about 50 years time as the Wars of the Ragnorak were slowly coming to an end thinking they could easily exterminate the meat eating Apes on this planet who were exhausted after nearly sixty years of intermittent but very bloody conflict, unfortunately for the Cent's, they came, they saw and they got roasted on a spit.
The reason they got roasted by us Apes, is that although they were more advanced than us in technology such as energy weapons, railguns and gravitics, humans were more knowledgeable in the Art and Practice of War, in addition we had developed weapons and vehicles that they hadn't even conceived off, like Tanks, Fighters and Precision Guided Munitions let alone Nuclear Weapons.
Let me explain my reasoning on the above statement, I have been been playing Traveller off and on since 1983 and I collected a lot of the early CT procducts including all of the orginal Alien Modules including the K'Kree. I was reading through it the other day and some of it didn't make sense.
I accept the basic premise behind the K'Kree, a race of vegetarian hexapod herd creatures does make sense. But I was thinking about some of the assumptions they made in the book. Why do we automatically assume that any alien race would develop the same sort of technology, either civilian or military, as we have done?
The two most alien of alien races in Traveller are the K'Kree and the Hivers, so why do assume that they would develop the same sort of weapons and vehicles that we have developed. Especially, as they are physically different from us.
Why would a large six-limbed race of Centaurs develop Tanks, when they would have great difficulty getting into one, can you imagine a centaur trying to get into a Challenger, let alone a Sabre or a Warrior MICV.
The same with hand weapons, why did we humans develop swords, when one of the first hand weapons we developed was the Axe, a far more useful general purpose tool, witness the use of it by the Vikings.
I was reading through the book, and I got to thinking about what sort of weapons and equipment they would have dveloped, especially a race as conservative as the K'Kree and with the limitations of their physiology?
For example, I can see them developing airships and then eventually developing gravitic technology to replace them, without developing winged aircraft. Also, the ships on the new V series are the sort of design I would envisage the K'Kree using as Herd Ships.
By the way can you see a K'Kree trying to climb a set of stairs or a ladder.
What sort of weapons and technolgy do you think the K'Kree would have devloped?
In my campaign setting the Cent's came to Earth in about 50 years time as the Wars of the Ragnorak were slowly coming to an end thinking they could easily exterminate the meat eating Apes on this planet who were exhausted after nearly sixty years of intermittent but very bloody conflict, unfortunately for the Cent's, they came, they saw and they got roasted on a spit.
The reason they got roasted by us Apes, is that although they were more advanced than us in technology such as energy weapons, railguns and gravitics, humans were more knowledgeable in the Art and Practice of War, in addition we had developed weapons and vehicles that they hadn't even conceived off, like Tanks, Fighters and Precision Guided Munitions let alone Nuclear Weapons.
Let me explain my reasoning on the above statement, I have been been playing Traveller off and on since 1983 and I collected a lot of the early CT procducts including all of the orginal Alien Modules including the K'Kree. I was reading through it the other day and some of it didn't make sense.
I accept the basic premise behind the K'Kree, a race of vegetarian hexapod herd creatures does make sense. But I was thinking about some of the assumptions they made in the book. Why do we automatically assume that any alien race would develop the same sort of technology, either civilian or military, as we have done?
The two most alien of alien races in Traveller are the K'Kree and the Hivers, so why do assume that they would develop the same sort of weapons and vehicles that we have developed. Especially, as they are physically different from us.
Why would a large six-limbed race of Centaurs develop Tanks, when they would have great difficulty getting into one, can you imagine a centaur trying to get into a Challenger, let alone a Sabre or a Warrior MICV.
The same with hand weapons, why did we humans develop swords, when one of the first hand weapons we developed was the Axe, a far more useful general purpose tool, witness the use of it by the Vikings.
I was reading through the book, and I got to thinking about what sort of weapons and equipment they would have dveloped, especially a race as conservative as the K'Kree and with the limitations of their physiology?
For example, I can see them developing airships and then eventually developing gravitic technology to replace them, without developing winged aircraft. Also, the ships on the new V series are the sort of design I would envisage the K'Kree using as Herd Ships.
By the way can you see a K'Kree trying to climb a set of stairs or a ladder.
What sort of weapons and technolgy do you think the K'Kree would have devloped?
Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
Things that take advantage of their size and physique... for example off the top of my head, personal force-fields might help with those body-bashes and side-swipes that large quadrupeds could make use of.
I dunno..
Given that K'kree have no qualms about wrecking ecosystem food-webs by eliminating predators and that they had no qualms sterilizing more than a couple of worlds just to get rid of Hiver social engineering 'experiments', I'd say that K'Kree don't mind if they cause a little collateral damage; wiping out an entire city just to get rid of a pocket of resistance.
Orbital bombardment and all the various forms of artillery/siege guns would probably be in abundance.
No need for them to understand precision guided munitions...carpet bomb the monkeys!
Their arms, as portrayed probably couldn't allow them to lift their bodies, so ladders are out and any hand-held weapons would not be overly large despite their bulk and carrying capacity. Energy weapons like plasma guns/fusion guns probably.
Vehicles would be overly large, given that they require proximity to other K'kree.
Instead of tanks, they might have mobile weapons platforms with siege engines and manned by dozens ( more even ) that look like this, but with guns ( okay...grav version maybe )
http://apollomaniacs.web.infoseek.co.jp/apollo/crawlere.htm
This would be slow moving, of course, but could be explained by letting them use a slow methodical doctrine that puts emphasis on defense/tactical position over mobile tactics such as this...
http://defense-and-freedom.blogspot.com/2008/12/bewegliche-gefechtsfhrung.html
I don't think swords or axes would fit as so much of swinging them involves twisting the torso....pikes and spears and other thrusting weapons, perhaps...and early personal armor optimized to protect against the same.
I guess you'd have to work out a bit of history and cultural traits over their history to be able to decide what they would chose to use. Mass charges with very high casualties to be expected as a matter of course among the lower castes? Napoleanic/WW1 tactics with modern weapons?...huge casualties ala Iran-Iraq war in the late '80s.
Given their size and history, I'd expect stealth and hit'n'run missions to be non-existent, perhaps and to have few if any weapons suited for such
no dedicated sniper teams of the fashion we are use to, today.
Carpet Bomb the monkeys!
I guess that's enough rambling for now
Given that K'kree have no qualms about wrecking ecosystem food-webs by eliminating predators and that they had no qualms sterilizing more than a couple of worlds just to get rid of Hiver social engineering 'experiments', I'd say that K'Kree don't mind if they cause a little collateral damage; wiping out an entire city just to get rid of a pocket of resistance.
Orbital bombardment and all the various forms of artillery/siege guns would probably be in abundance.
No need for them to understand precision guided munitions...carpet bomb the monkeys!
Their arms, as portrayed probably couldn't allow them to lift their bodies, so ladders are out and any hand-held weapons would not be overly large despite their bulk and carrying capacity. Energy weapons like plasma guns/fusion guns probably.
Vehicles would be overly large, given that they require proximity to other K'kree.
Instead of tanks, they might have mobile weapons platforms with siege engines and manned by dozens ( more even ) that look like this, but with guns ( okay...grav version maybe )
http://apollomaniacs.web.infoseek.co.jp/apollo/crawlere.htm
This would be slow moving, of course, but could be explained by letting them use a slow methodical doctrine that puts emphasis on defense/tactical position over mobile tactics such as this...
http://defense-and-freedom.blogspot.com/2008/12/bewegliche-gefechtsfhrung.html
I don't think swords or axes would fit as so much of swinging them involves twisting the torso....pikes and spears and other thrusting weapons, perhaps...and early personal armor optimized to protect against the same.
I guess you'd have to work out a bit of history and cultural traits over their history to be able to decide what they would chose to use. Mass charges with very high casualties to be expected as a matter of course among the lower castes? Napoleanic/WW1 tactics with modern weapons?...huge casualties ala Iran-Iraq war in the late '80s.
Given their size and history, I'd expect stealth and hit'n'run missions to be non-existent, perhaps and to have few if any weapons suited for such
no dedicated sniper teams of the fashion we are use to, today.
Carpet Bomb the monkeys!
I guess that's enough rambling for now
qstor
Banded Mongoose
I'm really looking forward to this book because hopefully it will provide details on a sector "never done" before in published Traveller material. There's stuff on Gateway and such in Megatraveller Journal and T20 but I'd love to see another sector done for the K'Kree.
Mike
Mike
justacaveman
Mongoose
I think that primitive K'kree would probably have developed a Roman style of warfare. Large shields with short swords (a thrusting weapon) working together in squads of about 8-12 K'kree. Modern K'kree would still have aspects this behaviour even at a high TL. K'kree probably wouldn't have Tanks since a vehicle big enough for a crew would be unwieldy. Instead I think they would use a very heavy form of Battle Dress with built-in weapons etc.. The armour of their Combat Armour would probably be as strong as regular Battle Dress.
Roman squads ate together, slept together, fought together. They usually did eveything as a group. Sounds very K'kree to me.
And just because they're vegetarians doesn't mean they're nice guys. Hitler was a vegetarian, and was supposedly fond of children and animals. This didn't keep him from trying to exterminate those he considered subhuman (children too).
Roman squads ate together, slept together, fought together. They usually did eveything as a group. Sounds very K'kree to me.
And just because they're vegetarians doesn't mean they're nice guys. Hitler was a vegetarian, and was supposedly fond of children and animals. This didn't keep him from trying to exterminate those he considered subhuman (children too).
An interesting idea, although I would tend towards cataphracts, heavily ar-justacaveman said:
moured "cavalry" with lances (to have some reach and put the entire body
mass into the thrust), and probably - as soon as available - powerful mis-
sile weapons like crossbows or composite bows to get through the armour
of the enemy.
justacaveman
Mongoose
More likely a mixture of all of the above. This would allow them to adapt to changing circumstances on the battlefield. With the Cataphracts a little less heavily armoured than the Infantry, and even more lightly armored Scouts for increased mobility.
One thing that the Roman Infantry rarely did was charge their opponents. Instead they would incite their enemies into charging them (if possible). This allowed them to have fortified positions to increase their effectiveness in battle. Romans tended to fight their battles like they were an army of Combat Engineers rather than the typical warriors of the time. They generally did so well that their enemies eventually adopted their tactics.
One thing that the Roman Infantry rarely did was charge their opponents. Instead they would incite their enemies into charging them (if possible). This allowed them to have fortified positions to increase their effectiveness in battle. Romans tended to fight their battles like they were an army of Combat Engineers rather than the typical warriors of the time. They generally did so well that their enemies eventually adopted their tactics.
waylandson
Mongoose
To be honest, I can see them using axes and polearms such as a bill or a pole axe in a medieval style environment along with Crossbows or slings. I don't think they have the right body shape for using bows or swords. I would actually see them being used more as like a combined version of medium Cavalry/Infantry.
With their racial need for companionship and dislike of closed spaces, I don't think they would actually use scouts or more appropriately Light Cavalry. Light Cavalry/Infantry tactics require the soldiers to be very independently minded, something that the K'Kree are not capable of, it's against their nature.
As for firearms, I can see them using heavy calibre pistols and carbines, but not long range rifles or small calibre assault weapons such as M-16, as their bodies are too massive to take damage from such weapons, nor would they have developed shotguns as they were developed to hunt avians.
What do you guys think?
With their racial need for companionship and dislike of closed spaces, I don't think they would actually use scouts or more appropriately Light Cavalry. Light Cavalry/Infantry tactics require the soldiers to be very independently minded, something that the K'Kree are not capable of, it's against their nature.
As for firearms, I can see them using heavy calibre pistols and carbines, but not long range rifles or small calibre assault weapons such as M-16, as their bodies are too massive to take damage from such weapons, nor would they have developed shotguns as they were developed to hunt avians.
What do you guys think?
justacaveman
Mongoose
I believe that they would still use scouts. They would use them as cavalry scouts were used historically, as screening elements for the movement of large formations, and to flush out ambushes etc.. They wouldn't use them as camouflaged commandos sneaking around at night.
