Is SST geared more towards adults than say 40K?

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

The 10 Commandments, is that all - when I first joined I had an insane Manager who based his marketing strategies on the Nazi Invasion of Europe during WW2!!!!!

You had it easy mate LMAO!

 

[Rob_A]

So what you were saying on the last post of page 2 is that GW staffers have to work Stakhanovite like toils to recieve good judgement.

That sucks, a lot.

 

[tneva82]

"its weird you can buy these games ready painted and cheaper than these kits for kids with warhammer crack habbit"

GW plastic box: 18£ for 10. BF:Evo infantry: 20£ for 8. Cheaper?

Also just because model is painted doesn't mean it's better...

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

Of course its cheaper.

No time to assemble, time is money when working out the cost of an item.

No glue to buy, no paint to buy, no gorram tools or paint brushes to buy!

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

So what you were saying on the last post of page 2 is that GW staffers have to work Stakhanovite like toils to recieve good judgement.

That sucks, a lot.

Rob trust me mate, if you want to work for GW. Work till you pass your probation, buy everything you want cheaply.

THEN LEAVE AS FAST AS YOU CAN!

 

[MaxSteiner]

"its weird you can buy these games ready painted and cheaper than these kits for kids with warhammer crack habbit"

GW plastic box: 18£ for 10. BF:Evo infantry: 20£ for 8. Cheaper?

Also just because model is painted doesn't mean it's better...

Of course its cheaper.

No time to assemble, time is money when working out the cost of an item.

No glue to buy, no paint to buy, no gorram tools or paint brushes to buy!

That arguament doesnt work.
When its a hobby item the time it takes to paint and assemble is part of its inherant value!
And the glue and paint dont magically disappear when your done with them do they?
I can appreciate that some people dont like painting, but at the same time theres alot of people who DO like to paint and assemble.
From a parents point of view the longer their out of your hair doing something constructive the better, and surely it must be conceeded that it is slightly more constructive than xbox?

Added to the fact that people are cherry picking their comparisons.
The battle for skull pass is one of the best value for money items in this market period (Particularly in the US!). Do I personally like the models? No, but trying to act like its cheaper to buy say BF:E or SST than it is to buy that box set is bull.
At best the BF:E minatures are around the same value for money as EE stuff right now.

Is GW expensive? Yes it is, but so is the new mongoose stuff. Is the business model directly geared towards exploiting pester power from the children? Yes but so is pretty much every other item in the youth market.
Are they running the business down the toilet by pushing an inelastic demand curve to its absolute limit? Probably, but they've been doing it for at least ten years so I don't see what the fuss is about?

As for which is more adult oriented, personally I think the evo rules have more depth to them, but thats just personal preferance.

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

It does Max, because there are PLENTY of people (unlike either of us) who either lack the inclination or ability to paint or just don't have the time!

The thing people object to with GW is their pricing.

Don't forget GW have their own production facilities, and don't have to farm them out like a lot of companies (including Mongoose) do.

Having miniatures cast up by 3rd parties greatly decreases profits or increases costs to the consumer.

GW don't have that excuse.

 

[MaxSteiner]

It does Max, because there are PLENTY of people (unlike either of us) who either lack the inclination or ability to paint or just don't have the time!

The thing people object to with GW is their pricing.

Don't forget GW have their own production facilities, and don't have to farm them out like a lot of companies (including Mongoose) do.

Having miniatures cast up by 3rd parties greatly decreases profits or increases costs to the consumer.

GW don't have that excuse.

I accepted that Lt, but like I said there are just as many people who LIKE to paint. Its a circular arguament, theres no right or wrong about it is there?
All you can say is that I personally don't like to paint, hence the mongoose prepaints add value to the product.
Conversly others will say, I like to paint, hence the mongoose prepaints add no value to the product for me at all.

You've just conceeded there that they are the same price.
There no point making excuses for Mongoose, just as I wont bother making excuses for the EE, both are charging what the market will bare.
Kudos to people who charge under that, (And there are plenty who do!) but theres no point blaming one company for doing it while making excuses for another company which is doing it is there?
Infact from a business perspective both are charging the same prices for miniatures, but GW is making more from it. Would you rather GW lower the price, making Mongoose produce and sell the prepaints at a near loss just to compete?
End of the day GW charging absurd prices for minatures allows smaller companies and independants to increase their profit margins whilst still being competative.

 

[tneva82]

It does Max, because there are PLENTY of people (unlike either of us) who either lack the inclination or ability to paint or just don't have the time!

There are but there are just as plenty(if not more) who prefers to assemble and paint them. For them models coming unpainted and assembled INCREASES value of model.

GW models might be expensive but no more than BF:Evo models. Mongoose models can't be called cheap as they are just as expensive/if not more expensive.

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

I actually don't care whether GW lower their prices or not.

The whole point was that they are manipulative and greedy.

They used to offer service and support which made it worthwhile, now they don't.

 

[tneva82]

I actually don't care whether GW lower their prices or not.

The whole point was that they are manipulative and greedy.

They charge same price as Mongoose.

Also speaking of own production machine...Mongoose seems to be getting one as well. You expect Mongoose prices to lower as a result?

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

Probably not, as they will still have to recoup the initial costs.

I just know how much profit GW makes on its products (even when a staff member buys at discount, they are still actually making some profit).

 

[tneva82]

I just know how much profit GW makes on its products (even when a staff member buys at discount, they are still actually making some profit).[/b][/color]

Mongoose has same prices pretty much, has moulds already. Guess they make lots of profits as well then for each sale...

Are you sure you are not just anti-GW regardless of facts? Blinded to the fact Mongoose is asking pretty much same price if not more? You can't claim Mongoose is cheap, GW is expensive. That's lying...

 

[MaxSteiner]

Of course its cheaper.

No time to assemble, time is money when working out the cost of an item.

No glue to buy, no paint to buy, no gorram tools or paint brushes to buy!

I was actually responding to that to be honest.

You're personal beef with GW becoming a limited company and acting as such, whilst being understandable, does seem a little bit unfair, their hands are tied by this point.
Im more pissed of with the fact that GW no longer imports /prints RPG's to the uk tbh, landraiders going from 2 for £5 all the way up to 1 for £35 I can deal with by buying someone elses product

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

The only game that even interests me these days is Inquisitor, one of the things our group wanted to do was play the 40k Roleplay and have 54mm miniatures of all our characters using the Inquisitor models to play out the fights and skirmishes.

But GW no longer really supports it, nor do they intend to stock the RPG (other than at Warhammer World).

Making the whole idea impractical.

I think one of the problems is their very limited mindset.

They do something that works, in a limited way. Then try to enforce on the company as a whole - which is no way to go in the long run.

 

[lt.harper]

Back on topic, In my opineon GW apealed to me when I was 6(yes 6). That was becous at the time my biolojical dad owned a Comic/games shop. I liked what GW did in the past. And groun to love the hoby.I amast a Space marin army with the models that my dad suplide after the shop closeed( he got tiered of it) Then went to TAU with my own mony. But now GW diupoints me. So I look twardes other games such as Warmachine, and of cores SST. But still I like the backstorys.
Also about those gilty parents, my biologicl dad when ever i see him(wich I rarly do) ALWAYS gives me his oled stor stuf such as space marins. I shooled spend more time with him, pluse my hafe bro. and sisters.
Edit sary about spelling.

 

[Mr Evil]

When i worked with them the managment report said that 20-30% of modles bought would never get painted and 10-15% would never get built, they planned to run articles in the magazine to promote the never painted to 50-60% and unbuilt to around 30% reason being if you can get people to buy product withut aim you double your sales, as they get caught in a spending trap, and it turns from a hobby to an addiction, modles owned and not built or ever used is a signal to the adiction, once addiction sets in you can exsploit them and get people to effectivly spend money they dont have. it was also discussed that people will have 1-2 armies for their favourite game, this needs to be exspanded buy making armies more different and wowy and maybe have a crossover in some magazine conversions. they also looked at sales, if somthing sold well, they looked at away of reducing its game points cost and increasing its price band, as they would still sell as many but could then release points in the army list for other stuff and more sales.

i sat in on 1 of these meetings i felt very uncomfortable about stuff discused, one discusion was extending training times and include stock training into them so they can get the store stocked for free on unpaid hours. It used to be a case that staff caould paint their own stuff instore at times, but managment felt they should be painting store armies instead, their was discussions that anything staff bought with discount could be classed as store propertie.

Standard practice in the company was to get staff to paint store modles in their own time at home witht heor own paint !!! and staff fell for it, evan buying the colours they needed to do the store fig.

When i worked for them the average staff member did 6-7 hours a week unpaid, doesnt sound much but for a just above min wage job, nobody would do that for any other job unless their mad.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

I just know how much profit GW makes on its products (even when a staff member buys at discount, they are still actually making some profit).[/b][/color]

Mongoose has same prices pretty much, has moulds already. Guess they make lots of profits as well then for each sale...

Are you sure you are not just anti-GW regardless of facts? Blinded to the fact Mongoose is asking pretty much same price if not more? You can't claim Mongoose is cheap, GW is expensive. That's lying...

Except that you're only taking a halfway look at the numbers threre. We've no idea what mongoose's profit per unit is - they may have made back their initial outlay on moulds and production setup by now or they may not. We don't know how much it costs to produce a mini compared to GW.

What we do know is that MGP have to farm their production work (for prepaints at least) out to one or more Chinese companies. These companies have to take their profit too. And this is a link in the production chain that GW doesn't have, keeping their production facilities entirely in-house.

That said a lot of companies have managed to reduce their costs by farming out work to other companies who apparently can do it cheaper, so this may or may not be costing GW money.

At the end of the day companies balance the price of their models on how much it costs to produce them, how much they need to contribute to the upkeep of the company (rent, bills, salaries and so on), recovery of setup costs, and how much they can get away with as a profit. You can't compare prices right across the board and expect them to match up. What we do have is stories from former GW employees attesting to their business practices (and not just the people who post on here), which paint a very dodgy picture of the company in general.

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

So you don't think that its a bit odd that they can offer a Staff discount of 50% and still make a profit Lol!

I was Headhunted initially, because of my Painting and Terrain Building skills - so I was naive as to the way they do things.

As I got promoted and saw more and more the workings of the company, I became more aware of exactly how dodgey they are.

YES there are a lot of disgruntled Employees, and not without reason.

The fact there are so many unhappy ex (and current) Staff should tell a lot about their business practices.

 

[MaxSteiner]

I still dont get what the hell you people are complaiuning about.
Anyone who works in retail ends up doing unpaid work. I used to put in about 4-5 hours a week unpaid when I was selling phones, and it sure as hell wasnt doing something as enjoyable as painting miniatures
Exploiting workers and customers is the nature of the beast!

Seriously what are you saying, GW should reduce its prices by 50%?
Who the hells gonna buy Mongoose stuff at 20 quid for eight then?
And are you actually saying its better to farm stuff out to china than to employ people in the UK to do the same job?
If the can make double what other companies are making then good for them, if you dont like it dont buy it I seem to recall people throwing around quite a bit last year, excercise the same freedom.
Hell, how many people get into the hobby through GW? A hell of alot.
The fact that they're soul sucking parasites worshiping the forces of chaos in order to exploit teenagers parents is pretty much a given and suprises no one.

You're problem seems to be that its run as a business and not a hobby.
Thats fair do's, like I say I havent bought a thing of GW for ten years, but it is sadly the way the world works.