Is SST geared more towards adults than say 40K?

Having worked for the Evil Empire in the past, and training as a Sith Lord I can say it IS almost that sinister.

One of there objectives was TGD - Total Global Domination (of the Wargaming Hobby that is).

They want ONLY their games to be played, plain and simple - I've been at the meetings over Intro Games, Beginner Weekends, and Marketing in General.

THATS their objective, they want to evolve "GW-Crack" Addicts - and I've heard that term used more than once.

Are the products weak and shoddy (well sometimes the rules can be Lol), no - they are top quality.

But most (if not all) Middle to Higher Management Types are Evil . . . .
 
i also woked for the evil empire on many levels.

one guy got the sack as in 1 year he hadnt bought a single mini, they could tell from the staff purchase book.

he was physicly made to buy somthing to keep his job !!! he refused as he sid the armies he built 2 yers ago were more than good enough for him, and didnt fancy buying anything else he didnt neeed or intend to paint.

i backed him up, the people who did well in the company were those that spent most their wages witht he comapany ;) some faked it (managers) buy buying stuf for their mates and using their discount to look like they were staying current, if they did need somthing they would no loss it from the stock and keep it for themselves ;) was a fun investigation i cal tell you.

its like alot of the limited edition odles, a few years later they sometimes become general release !!! or a new better version comes out of it.

i think it is generaly the crack habbit of wargames, but then id say at times Flames of war can be lol.

if i whant fluff il play warmachine, beats everything with a stick, if i whant somthing largish scale il play FOW, if i whant a gme i can pick up and paly against anyone with garanteed painted forces for both sides then BF-EVO, as for scfi, well il probably get SST-evo, realised to day what a pain in the bum painting is.

as for 40k, i have a marine army i use and take with me to meet new gamers, it never gets used as every body wishes to try BF-Evo intead when they see the stuff.

i used to be a GW crack hoar, but now i have an attractive girlfriend and friends who look normal. :D
 
If I want Sci Fi - I go for VOR, SST, Rezolution, or GOMC1.

I'm JUST getting back into Dark Age.

If I want Fantasy - I play Chainmail (the old non collectable version), Warmachine, Hordes, or Mindstalkers.

None of the games I play are really geared at Kids I wouldn't think.

The only game I ever played before working for GW was Necromunda, but no one around here plays it anymore.

I always played more Warhammer than 40k during my stint at GW tbh, as I found 40k to "kiddy-fied" for my tastes.

 
I feel that last statement has reversed lately.

I have stopped buying WD after buying it for 8 years every month (yes, since I was 8 ).
I do plan on working for GW, to help get myself into the gaming industry with some more background knowledge, if I don't like it, I'll quit. Simple.
I don't play GW games right now, if I do, they are specialist. 'Munda was good, BB was good. Man O war is excellent.
If I was forced to buy something, I would buy it and then sell it on ebay. Money made is money spent on other games.

I do still buy minis from them that I like, selective buying. Not army buying. When Orks are re-released, I may just get an army for old times sake. But by the time they are released I will be 18 and old enough to work there. 8)
 
Obviously I was referring to Warhammer LAST edition Lol, not the new 'plastic' driven game.

Its not worth working for GW anymore, all of the best benefits have gone (including buying by weight) and they still treat the staff like s**t.

I miss the regular customers and the social aspect, and thats all.
 
Their reasons, Production Costs, Design Costs, Rent on stores etc . . .

One of the truths behind their pricing is actually much more odd - A bunch of people LITERALLY sit around in meetings and ask the question "how much can we get away with charging for that model".

Strange, but true.
 
Lieutenant Rasczak said:
Their reasons, Production Costs, Design Costs, Rent on stores etc . . .

One of the truths behind their pricing is actually much more odd - A bunch of people LITERALLY sit around in meetings and ask the question "how much can we get away with charging for that model".

Strange, but true.

spot on, its the people with the £30k plus a year wage who buy on weight who decided the pricing structure !!!! ie they decide a box should sell for £15 as they can afford that with ease, but for them persoanly they a fre 2k army every year for each game, and can buy on weight so the £15 kit only costs them around £2-£4.

single lead figs no matter who they are, used to cost us staff around 12-27pence each and GW made a profit on that !!!

compant records show that GW staff spend around 50-60% of their wages with the comapany paying around 30-40% of their own wage.
 
The whole structure now is designed to make people spend more and get less.

Ok, plastic models cost more to tool for (but nowhere near as expensive as it used to be) but the raw materials are cheaper and the molds don't really wear out so the profit margin is bigger (which is why Mongoose's prepaints are a reasonable price).

BUT when the prices of unpainted and unassembled plastics approach the prices of metal miniatures they are taking the mickey a little.

For example - 5 plastic Space Marine Scouts = £12.00

But - 5 METAL Space Marine Scouts - ALSO £12.00

Plastic Empire Cannon/Mortar Kit - £12.00 but a Hellblaster is also £12.00 in metal!

Ok, I know they need to make a profit - but its not like they pay (or treat) the Staff all that well - but thats taking the mickey.

It is (or was at least when I worked for them) policy to have price increases on two Ranges once a year.

In July 2002 US Independant Retailers sent a joint statement to Games Workshop over Pricing and Attitudes - it was pretty much ignored.

The most obvious example of the price increases is the 'Space Marine Tactical Squad' boxed set, a staple of new gamers and kids everywhere, which was released in 1998 at just £10 but is now priced at £18!

Paint Pots are another prime Example. The First Citadel Paints had 20ml in each pot, nowadays they are a mere 12 ml in each pot - and yet, the price increased!!!!! (I personally favour Miniature Paints from Game Craft - a mere 80p a pot from Ral Partha Europe and I also use a lot of Vallejo).

There is even an online Petition from Gamers about it (though I find that a little sad personally) - http://www.petitiononline.com/eg126s/petition.html
With a mere 1686 signatures in Total.

Not really surprising though, when you consider that discussion of Games Workshop's "business" practises and general pricing was banned from any of their forums!

Last year GW's profits (note PROFITS not takings) fell from £71,000,000 to a mere £57,000,000 - they claimed it was down to the LOTR 'bubble' bursting. But thats unlikely, as it was never the run away hit that GW wanted it to be. Its more likely down to the ration= of people growing up and leaving the hobby compared to how many new hobbyists they can recruit.

It seems like they really are only interested in new gamers (hence the massively complicated and convoluted Beginners Weekends) , the constant pressure on staff to run intro games - that they ALWAYS lie about numbers to their bosses anyway. They have to, or they get shouted at for failing to hit their targets.

But badgering and bullying youngsters into having Intro Games and Painting lessons, and attending beginners weekends will only go so far.

Its a fact of life people only keep Wargaming if they are passionate at it, the whole hobby takes too much effort to be a 'casual' gamer. If you don't look after your Veteran Gamers (many of which have kids who end up playing, and end up being 'Young Veterans' in a way because of parental guidance) they will move on to something else (Warmachine seems to be a favourite with these Vet's) and then you lose their money too - and as Working Adults, they generally have more disposable income than Kids do anyway.

They get them through Training and "out the other end" as they can 'push' them out of the store and onto clubs where they don't have to worry about them - and yet they still expect financial loyalty from them. They really DON'T understand kids Lol.

I preferred the "Bums on Seats" approach. Run BIG events (multiplayer games, or 'mini' campaigns, or even Tournaments) have a few 'spot prizes' for exceptional gamers/painters on the day - and watch the following happen.

Atmosphere - great fun, a great place to be. AND (most importantly) the customers are happy (Kids are more than willing to buy that extra model/pot of paint, and parents always spend that extra few quid when their Kid has had a great day and won't shut up about it).

Staff - and usually tired at the end, but generally happy. Its a truth - busy Staff (when the tasks are fun and have purpose) are happy and more productive Staff. Fun is "catching".

Profits - watch how much Cash a store takes when it has this philosophy, it is generally a lot higher when you take this approach.

But are they gear to younger gamers, pretty much yes.

Simpler models, made out of plastic means younger hands can cope.

Simpler rules means younger minds can cope.

Higher prices means that younger beginners spend a reasonable amount of cash quickly, if they get bored it doesn't matter as the money has been spent.

However, all these things reduce the durability of the GW Hobby. Years ago everybody played at least one GW Core system. Nowadays people might still play a GW game, but its either with older Models, or a previous edition, or might only be a Specialist Game.

GW will most likely never go away, but they simply aren't the market leaders they once were - and its pretty much their own fault.
 
I have noticed the change in attitude at my local GW after the old manager left, he was a fairly relaxed soul who was happy to let people use the gaming rooms as long as they had a GW army and had splashed some paint about, if they hadn't he or other members of staff where happy to give help and advice.

Generaly the attitude in the store was good, yes you did get pestered a bit about what you where going to buy next (next not NOW!!) and had you thought about this that or the other.... but whilst it was selling it wasn't the hard sell.

Since the new manager has come in, the hard sell is on. If you can be in the shop 30 seconds before you are asked what you are buying then its a miracle, and you are constantly being given the hard sell about whatever is new, even if you repeatedly say you aren't intrested in the paints, book, game they are trying to get you to buy. I have heard that the regs regarding getting into the gaming room have been hugely tightened (but as I no longer game there I can't speak from personal experience).

In the old days the store constantly had half a dozen non-staff in shopping, chatting, painting or gaming or a mix of all. Now adays the shop is empty whenever I go in or past, the few times I have been I have been badgered to buy so tend to get what I (or friends) want and get out ASAP, the few times the book has been open for signing into the game room it is empty or nearly so.

Most of the old staff have left, the few I have seen said it was because of the new manager, most of the new staff just hard sell desperately and seem incapable of any coverstation outside of it (I once struck up a converstation about FOW with a staff member to have the manager come across and sledgehammer the convo back to GW games, at which point I left). I can only imagine what effect this has had on sales, but i doubt its good.
 
Lieutenant Rasczak said:
Having worked for the Evil Empire in the past, and training as a Sith Lord I can say it IS almost that sinister.

One of there objectives was TGD - Total Global Domination (of the Wargaming Hobby that is).

Oh, I was responding to the "distrurbing trends in parenting" concept. I can't say I care much for GW's policies; as an Epic and Blood Bowl player it shouldn't be hard to see why. But I don't think they've single-handedly turned American parents into harried, guilt-ridden walking wallets.
 
Nah, they're not evil enough to effect change like that, but they're just evil enough to take advantage of a disturbing social trend :D
 
Lieutenant Rasczak said:
Yes I know, but surely they are "taking advantage" of such trends exasperating them!

I think you mean exacerbating, although exasperating is an interesting image. :)

I also think there's plenty to waste money on these days, and GW products aren't the worst thing you could get. They are still operating in a market, even if it's partially a "bitter guilt-ridden parents" market. So if they raise prices too high then they will be undersold by video games, trashy clothes, and so on. Heck, at the rate they're going, they'll be undersold by cars... :shock:
 
No I do mean exasperate!

Because I really REALLY do think GW are aggravating, agitating, and angering people!

The clincher for me was when my Area Manager at the time told me "You don't shout at your Staff enough" . . . . . .
 
hehehehe.

just go into a GW store and watch a kid with a pile of boxes and paints with his parrents, and mention to your mate that

"its weird you can buy these games ready painted and cheaper than these kits for kids with warhammer crack habbit"


parrents faces suddely looked a little shocked, another good one is ask them if they actualy think their kid will build and paint all the stuff they got them or would they be better buying managable bits for him so he wont be overwelmed.

GW staff hate me :D

Vets when i left were being treated like pond life, and were seen as money pits and nothing else. kids aspire to play adult games, adults dont aspire to play kids games, told area manager that, didnt go down well.
 
I was told i needed to be "more a yes man to get on within the company", i replied "yes but fortunatly im prepared to do a proper job" :D

i was slightly antagonistical when i worked for them and found the marine training manual and the 10 commandment just a little sad and childish.
 
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