Is SST geared more towards adults than say 40K?

[Vic]

Just wondered.

40k to me seems broken. Its points systems, its "uber lists" and gaping holes in the ruleset, the design of the models in general. It's myriad of "special rules" (Im sorry, a plethora of rules and clunky game mechanics for the sake of complexity does not an advanced game make) , the ability to win a game based on list creation etc, to me as an adult (36 years old) seems like a waste of time. When I was younger, I had the time to invest in reading all the codecies, the rules, the special rules etc, then I had the time to play a game of 40K and spend a decent amount of that time arguing the validity of the rules. I dunno, maybe I OD'ed on all the "pseudo-gothic '80s vision of the future lets pile more skulls and bling on a model" that seems to permeate 40K.

I want to just be able to game. I want nice models, with a decent history that isnt bogged down in itself. I want a game that works, that wont break the bank and allow me to have a good time. With SST:EVO, I'll even have models ready to go.

And while yes, I do realize at the end of the day, both games are games played wih toy soldiers, I dunno, Im feeling like Im getting a better polished product from Mongoose than I am from GW at the moment. And yes, it can be argued that model releases from Mongoose were screwed up (EXO suits multiple right arms anyone?) initially, Mongoose's response
was exemplary. Thats not to say that GW wouldnt do the same, its just to say that Mongoose owed up to its mistake and took care of its customers.

 

[MongooseMatt]

In answer to your question, only if you presume 40k is aimed at kids.

SST was designed as a path from 40k, to an extent, for those looking for a little more tactical 'bite' to their games. However, at Mongoose, we never, ever presume kids are stupid, and I would certainly consider SST Evo suitable for the lower age range as well.

 

[Galatea]

Yes it is, definately.
It is much more important how you move your units on the board (espacially for the bugs) and you can reach a lot of things with just bluffing and bringing units in the right position (models can react and so Bugs immediately charge troopers if they move within 8" of them (6"charge, 2" point blank range) or at least move towards them).
SST is a bit like Poker - you never really know what nasty surprise your opponent will reveal next and you have to be prepaired and count that in when making you plans (and you are able to that, there is now unbeatable tactic or army).

But as Matt said, this doesn't mean that kids aren't able to play it (in fact most I met do very well as SST is very easy and intuitive to learn), but it doesn't have that "hey look at that cool mini! Hey you want that mini! Look at that cool new army!"-Effect. Oh, and the newest army isn't always the best

 

[rico chay]

plus Andy Chambers, the guy who designed the rules system for SST, is an old GW staff member, who was quite far up the ranks.

 

[Xorrandor]

Rule #1: Don't bash on someone else's game to sell yours. It pisses off people who play the other game, and makes bystanders wonder if your game actually has any positive points.

That said, I've played 40K exactly twice since it was in Rogue Trader, so I can't really comment on the modern version. I do like the background, and actually only find it slightly less logical than the SST background. What I've seen of modern 40K isn't impressive, but then most of the people playing are half my age, and the ones who aren't admit they're mostly playing to get the kids interested in minis .

 

[Mr Evil]

i say SST is aimed at people who wish to play games they enjoy.

40k is more a mass market product.

better ? no worse ? no different ? yes

40k my cup of tea ? since playing warmachine i havnt touched GW stuff bar to sell it on ebay.

different horses for different courses, its just a different type of rod for fishing different fish.

 

[Galatea]

Rule #1: Don't bash on someone else's game to sell yours. It pisses off people who play the other game, and makes bystanders wonder if your game actually has any positive points.

I don't try to bash anyone, it simply pisses me off in which way GW is advertising their products and what they have done to such a beautyful universe.
It's perfect for RPGs and there are some great systems like Battlefleet Gothic and Necromunda, but what they are doing to 40k is just sad.

 

[Vic]

Rule #1: Don't bash on someone else's game to sell yours. It pisses off people who play the other game, and makes bystanders wonder if your game actually has any positive points.

Heres another rule 1: Dont assume that a poster is trying to sell anything.
I've invested heavily into 40k for over 20 years. I thank GW for its take on the hobby of wargaming, but my tastes have matured. My post is merely a reflection of the disenfranchisment I feel towards the whole 40k "hobby".

I havent stated any falsehoods either.

Now, will I take this attitude with me wherever I take SST? No, I'll let SST stand on its own without mentioning anyone else.

Do I still like 40k? In my heart, I have to say yes. But that loving feeling is slowly dying off. Do I enjoy 40K? You bet, especially with my 7 and 5 year old daughters. We play on a table built especially for gaming. We've been enjoying Space Hulk recently.

 

[cordas]

I just think that SST and then the Evo rule sets are trying to make a more fluid game, where on board tactics matter as much if not more than army list creation.

In our gaming group we used to play a lot of 3rd ed 40k despite what we saw as some glaring weaknesses in the game, once 4th ed came out we just found that it was more of the same and started to loose intrest... One of my mates got SST and we 2 where the only 2 intrested in the game so it sort of died, then we tried again and both still really enjoy the game and are slowly getting people intrested, and now the evo rule set is out in basic format we have got a couple more playing and a few more intrested. We like the improved flexability of the game and the freedom of choice you have when you have 2 actions rather than move, shoot, charge... then there is reaction that brings a whole new element into the game

Is 40k for kids? I don't think so, its just far more accessable due to GWs place in the market place, and they have that place because they earned it.... I would say that 40k is more of a gateway, its quick its relatively simple (well until you start really reading the rules and all the different amendments that pile up from hundreds of different sources *GRRR*).

 

[Turtle]

If anything, once the advanced rules come out I'm sure we'll see some conversions of 40k and other games to SST, and vice versa.

 

[Vic]

Well, the thing is, it really seems like 40k is being marketed to the younger crowd, leaving the older players behind. I dunno, I started out with 40k when I was 18, so I was once that younger crowd. Maybe they've always catered to that dempgraphic and I never paid attention to it until recently? Also, 40k is readily available. Its hard to find stores which carry SST or places where its played out by me. Im hoping that EVO changes that (making the game more accessible to those not inclined to painting/building models - seems like there are less die-hard model builders or model stores now-a-days ).

 

[Poko]

18 is the "old demographic" for GW,so you weren't in the young crowd :wink:
and yes, i do hope too tath the Evo will be a hit, coz otherwise the shop i buy at now said it's going to put the game down.

 

[katadder]

problem with 40k being aimed at the younger crowd is the fact that their prices are aimed at people with a high disposable income. a 10 year old probably has to save pocket money for a month to buy 10 plastic marines now. and later this month GW has some more price increase on some stuff (20% on some of it - like eldrad an ancient model soon gonna be £12).

 

[hegemon]

personelly I feel the 40k is aimed at the "Kiddies," its like the beginners game of wargaming.

SST on the otherhand i feel is aimed at anyone in general, the ruleset is simple and intuitive, not to many special rules to remember. Its your Arm chair general sort of game, one where you can casually beer with dice in one hand and beer in the other and not have to think to much on "Oh shit i forgot this and that."

EDIT: I got beer on the brain that shud of been casually play. DUHH"!!

 

[Rob_A]

I find SST simple. I like it that way. Evo doesnt simplify it, but makes it right unlike 40k's newer editions.

I can note 40k 2nd edition's similarities with SST (or vice versa), there are a lot, simply because Andy C. designed it.

40k was never aimed at children, it is now because they are a good source for money. I agree with Matt, Kids aren't necessarily stupid, they just think differently from an adult mind. I am not an adult, I'm 16, I used to play 40k but found it patronisingly easy to play. I now play SST not only because of the setting, but the similar rules that seem more 'correct'. If I was to play 40k, it would be 2nd edition or Rogue Trader.
I cannot wait for SST evo, the new minis, the new rules. I think SST is very much aimed at everyone, Young, old, middle-aged and very soon it will be hitting SST collectors markets because many will see it as action figures!
My 2 pence.

 

[roughneck GIR]

i say SST is aimed at people who wish to play games they enjoy.

40k is more a mass market product.

better ? no worse ? no different ? yes

40k my cup of tea ? since playing warmachine i havnt touched GW stuff bar to sell it on ebay.

different horses for different courses, its just a different type of rod for fishing different fish.

Yay someone who agrees with me . Even though I buy 40k minis and can still agree, I buy those gribbly lil nids because I like them a lot. Well 40k as Evil put it, isn't my cuppa joe neither, but buying things as I said before because they're cool. Anyhoo when it boils down to it, it's what the individual likes more, or something, and.... errr, wait where am I going with this...

 

[Vic]

i say SST is aimed at people who wish to play games they enjoy.

40k is more a mass market product.

better ? no worse ? no different ? yes

40k my cup of tea ? since playing warmachine i havnt touched GW stuff bar to sell it on ebay.

different horses for different courses, its just a different type of rod for fishing different fish.

Yay someone who agrees with me . Even though I buy 40k minis and can still agree, I buy those gribbly lil nids because I like them a lot. Well 40k as Evil put it, isn't my cuppa joe neither, but buying things as I said before because they're cool. Anyhoo when it boils down to it, it's what the individual likes more, or something, and.... errr, wait where am I going with this...

Im not sure where your going either. But between this beer and that dancing icon you have, Im not sure I care :wink:

 

[crucible_orc]

problem with 40k being aimed at the younger crowd is the fact that their prices are aimed at people with a high disposable income. a 10 year old probably has to save pocket money for a month to buy 10 plastic marines now.

True, but I'll let you in on a disturbing trend in north america:

Parents who work to much feel sorry for not spending enough time with thier kids, and thus when 10 yr old billy wants that $40 dollar space marine squad, he gets it.

It's aimed at a younger crowd who may not have the personal income themselves, but their guilty, overworked parents sure do.

 

[Xorrandor]

True, but I'll let you in on a disturbing trend in north america:

Parents who work to much feel sorry for not spending enough time with thier kids, and thus when 10 yr old billy wants that $40 dollar space marine squad, he gets it.

It's aimed at a younger crowd who may not have the personal income themselves, but their guilty, overworked parents sure do.

True, but it doesn't have to be so sinister. Do you want little Billy to be spending all his time in front of the computer screen, or actually interacting with other kids? That's a $50 video game vs. a $50 set of minis. Do you want Billy to practice painting on something more uplifting than bathroom stall walls? Another good reason to buy minis. Is he having trouble with math? A fine reason to get into gaming, which takes basic math and makes it practical and fun. And finally, are you buying that new jetski because Billy will use it, or because you will? Maybe you should buy toys for your kids, where they see plenty of use, rather than for youself, to maybe use during your one week of vacation a year.

Not that the guilt factor isn't there too (and you forgot divorced/ing parents trying to bribe kids into their camp), but it isn't the only reason a parent might be willing to lay down a chunk of change for fiddly pieces of plastic.

 

[fluffy05]

I don't know if SST is geared more towards adults. Under the origional rules which I think are quite good I would say yes.

I bought into BF: Evo and was disappointed with the minis initially andwhile I have waited for an improvement I see prototype models that look great but the production models continue to dissappoint me.

Having said that the mechanics for BF: Evo are good but it is targeted for a specific group of gamers who like historical - Current Wargames based on past & present Armed forces which is great.

SST: Evo rules appear to have made a few changes to some great rules from Andy Chambers. The changes I am aware of I like and are good for the most part.

Again BF: Evo models have ensured I will not be buying any more models from MGP. I am getting out of BF: Evo and will be selling off my SST for that reason.

I continue to play B5: ACTA as it is a great game although again casting of minis has been a major problem for me (I would like to point out MGP is fixing this as I type which is great because I stopped buying B5 minis for their poor quality - when it is fixed I will buy more again )

For me the biggest turn off is MGP pre-painted models. The idea is great but the execution (for me personally) leaves much to be desired. As such MGP has lost me as a gamer for 2 of their products.

The casting quality of the models for BF: Evo has prevented any local players from taking up BF: Evo & SST: Evo locally. I ran alot of BF: Evo demos locally and people were interested in the game but hated the low quality of the models.

I would say the game systems can be enjoyed by all ages, adult and kids alike but the models really bring the game down.