Iron Working in Glorantha
- Thread starter Exubae
- Start date
weasel_fierce
Mongoose
In hte old days, iron weapons and armour was mostly limited to the elite of a particular cult.
Yep, so should the manufacture of such items from Iron be a legendary ability.
Compared to bronze it is going to be a different beast to work and such knowledge is going to be possessed by very few - and they're going to be pretty legendary in their professions status.
Had the idea of getting the players assist a Gustbran Bonesmith in his quest to gather the lore and knowledge to work iron... thus the query on how folk viewed the working of iron in Glorantha.
Depending on the game setting.
It should always be an Advanced Skill, even if Craft isn't (or is it?).
Gloranthawise, ironmaking has become steadily less available - in RQ2, most cults had access to iron weapons, in RQ3 only a few cults got Enchant Iron, in HQ Iron is incredibly rare. Who knows how rare iron is going to be in this version of RQ.
Traditionally, the Mostali have had iron, the Third Eye Blue cult stole it from them and became itinerant ironworkers and certain main cults taught Enchant Iron and Craft (Ironsmithing) or Craft (Blacksmithing). So, cults such as Gustbran, Humakt, Orlanth and Yelmalio have Ironsmiths to make their weapons.
So, one way of doing this in RQM is to have Craft (Weaponsmith) as the base Craft which teaches how to smelt and work bronze and then have Legendary Abilities of Ironsmith, Goldsmith, Silversmith, Leadsmith, Coppersmith, Aluminiumsmith and so on. You could even have Dragonbonesmith, Bonesmith, Woodsmith and so on to cope with other materials.
As to their costs, they shouldn't be that expensive but they are specialised, so they shouldn't be cheap either. Perhaps 6 Hero Points to learn with the requirement that the person be a Smith or metal worker of some kind.
They would be available through cults, guilds and secret societies.
Outside of Glorantha, you could still have the Legendary Abilities, but most Blacksmiths would start being able to use Iron and then would have to buy the other Legendary Abilities to be able to work with other metals.
[Material]smith
Hero Points Cost: 6
Requirements: The character must be a smith or metalworker
This is available in several forms, each of which must be learnt separately. So, there are Ironsmith, Leadsmith, Aluminiumsmith, Coppersmith, Goldsmith, Tinsmith, Silversmith and so on. This gives the ability to work with the stated metal or material and to use other Craft skills to make weapons or items from that material. So, a smith with Ironsmith will be able to use his Craft (Weaponmaking) to make iron weapons and a jeweller with Goldsmith can make gold jewellry with his Goldsmith ability.
It should always be an Advanced Skill, even if Craft isn't (or is it?).
Gloranthawise, ironmaking has become steadily less available - in RQ2, most cults had access to iron weapons, in RQ3 only a few cults got Enchant Iron, in HQ Iron is incredibly rare. Who knows how rare iron is going to be in this version of RQ.
Traditionally, the Mostali have had iron, the Third Eye Blue cult stole it from them and became itinerant ironworkers and certain main cults taught Enchant Iron and Craft (Ironsmithing) or Craft (Blacksmithing). So, cults such as Gustbran, Humakt, Orlanth and Yelmalio have Ironsmiths to make their weapons.
So, one way of doing this in RQM is to have Craft (Weaponsmith) as the base Craft which teaches how to smelt and work bronze and then have Legendary Abilities of Ironsmith, Goldsmith, Silversmith, Leadsmith, Coppersmith, Aluminiumsmith and so on. You could even have Dragonbonesmith, Bonesmith, Woodsmith and so on to cope with other materials.
As to their costs, they shouldn't be that expensive but they are specialised, so they shouldn't be cheap either. Perhaps 6 Hero Points to learn with the requirement that the person be a Smith or metal worker of some kind.
They would be available through cults, guilds and secret societies.
Outside of Glorantha, you could still have the Legendary Abilities, but most Blacksmiths would start being able to use Iron and then would have to buy the other Legendary Abilities to be able to work with other metals.
[Material]smith
Hero Points Cost: 6
Requirements: The character must be a smith or metalworker
This is available in several forms, each of which must be learnt separately. So, there are Ironsmith, Leadsmith, Aluminiumsmith, Coppersmith, Goldsmith, Tinsmith, Silversmith and so on. This gives the ability to work with the stated metal or material and to use other Craft skills to make weapons or items from that material. So, a smith with Ironsmith will be able to use his Craft (Weaponmaking) to make iron weapons and a jeweller with Goldsmith can make gold jewellry with his Goldsmith ability.
Iron Working just blacksmithing and is a mundane skill. It's a rare and highly prized skill, but not unknown by any means. Sources of raw iron are few, but the actual metal is traded across Glorantha in sufficient quantities for wealthy warriors to afford suits of the stuff. Such suits need to be made, repaired and eventually broken down and made into other things. Access to iron itself is actually widespread geographically, if not socially, it's new sources of the stuff that are heavily restricted. IMHO Iron is about as common in Glorantha as Gold, so iron working is about as common a skill as gold smithing.
Tempering Iron is another mater. Tempered iron has slightly different magical properties from raw iron. In previous editions this ability was represented by a spell, but perhaps in MRQ it could be a Legendary Ability.
In a Gloranthan context I tend to equate Legendary Abilities with HeroQuest Powers, so to me the question is does learning it require a heroquest. I'm not strongly inclined one way or the other.
Tempering Iron is another mater. Tempered iron has slightly different magical properties from raw iron. In previous editions this ability was represented by a spell, but perhaps in MRQ it could be a Legendary Ability.
In a Gloranthan context I tend to equate Legendary Abilities with HeroQuest Powers, so to me the question is does learning it require a heroquest. I'm not strongly inclined one way or the other.
Iron is rare, but alot depends on where you are too. iron is more common near dwarf if I remember right as dwarf will trade it(But dont expect dwarf to offer a discount) But finding an Ironworker, say in Prax outside Pavis or the Block is going to be hard.But finding iron in say the Clanking City might not be so hard.Rune metal I fel lwould be more common with Rune levels then Iron, with a few pieces of Iron here and there.
I don't think Iron Working should be a Legendary Ability. Given the technology and know how it is just another metal to work.
Now I realize Gloranthan Metals are not analogous to real World Metals directly, but the I don't think Legendary Abilities is the right way to represent it.
In the real world the 'technology' is really just the ability extract the ore and heat the metal to the right temperature to work, which really comes down to knowing how to make a hot enough fire.
Traditionally in RQ Glorantha the 'Technology' is the appropriate Enchant(Runemetal) spell. I see no reason to change this.
Runemetals, their cult associations, and the accompanying Enchant spells would be an excellent section for Cults of Glorantha 3 (along with a master index for all 3 volumes).
Now I realize Gloranthan Metals are not analogous to real World Metals directly, but the I don't think Legendary Abilities is the right way to represent it.
In the real world the 'technology' is really just the ability extract the ore and heat the metal to the right temperature to work, which really comes down to knowing how to make a hot enough fire.
Traditionally in RQ Glorantha the 'Technology' is the appropriate Enchant(Runemetal) spell. I see no reason to change this.
Runemetals, their cult associations, and the accompanying Enchant spells would be an excellent section for Cults of Glorantha 3 (along with a master index for all 3 volumes).
Utgardloki
Mongoose
If I remember correctly from the original Runequest rules, the problem with iron was that it inhibited enchantments, preventing the person wearing the armor from being able to cast spells. Special enchantments could be laid upon the iron to allow the wearer to cast spells, but these were expensive and thus only made available to rune lords.
At that time I imagined a cult that did not use magic, and as they had a little higher level of technology, could and did use iron armor and weapons routinely.
My historical reading says that iron was always known, but it was difficult to work it in a way to make it useful for weapons and armor. The problem was that it would bend too easily unless combined with carbon and other materials. The spread of this knowledge was slow because the first empire to figure out how to work this stuff did not want all their enemies to have the secret -- thus this was a bronze age military secret similar to our modern concerns about nuclear proliferation.
For Runequest characters, I would handle iron working thusly:
Before iron weapons and armor become common, learning how to make these would require a Legendary Inventor ability, because you have to be smart enough to expand your metallurgy beyond what anybody else can accomplish.
When iron weapons and armor start being introduced, you can use a Legendary Inventor ability to recreate the secret, or somehow find out and learn the secret from someone the same as any advanced skill for which a teacher is not easily available. Those who work iron weapons and armor may be under restriction or find themselves the target of assassination attempts.
When iron weapons and armor become more common, then a character could learn to work them the same as learning any other advanced skill. At this point, bronze weapons and armor start to be phased out, unless enchantment concerns are an issue.
At that time I imagined a cult that did not use magic, and as they had a little higher level of technology, could and did use iron armor and weapons routinely.
My historical reading says that iron was always known, but it was difficult to work it in a way to make it useful for weapons and armor. The problem was that it would bend too easily unless combined with carbon and other materials. The spread of this knowledge was slow because the first empire to figure out how to work this stuff did not want all their enemies to have the secret -- thus this was a bronze age military secret similar to our modern concerns about nuclear proliferation.
For Runequest characters, I would handle iron working thusly:
Before iron weapons and armor become common, learning how to make these would require a Legendary Inventor ability, because you have to be smart enough to expand your metallurgy beyond what anybody else can accomplish.
When iron weapons and armor start being introduced, you can use a Legendary Inventor ability to recreate the secret, or somehow find out and learn the secret from someone the same as any advanced skill for which a teacher is not easily available. Those who work iron weapons and armor may be under restriction or find themselves the target of assassination attempts.
When iron weapons and armor become more common, then a character could learn to work them the same as learning any other advanced skill. At this point, bronze weapons and armor start to be phased out, unless enchantment concerns are an issue.
Yes, but Iron isn't a natural substance, Its pretty much a magical substance, an invention of the dwarves, and the knowledge to work it has only been stolen in by two groups the Third eye Blue and the Zistorites.
I agree the case of traditional enchantments for hardening/sealing the other rune metals... but iron its... well iron... it makes Elves run in the opposite direction, and gives Trolls heart burn.
I also can't remember seeing anywhere in the RQ3 rules that says that Iron can be found naturally.
