Invulnerable Spacecraft

[DaMavster]

Maybe I missed it, but what's stopping me from designing a ship with 30% of its hull as Bonded Superdense armor? That'd be 36 damage reduction, right? Only the meson gun would ever endanger the vessel.

Also, if a hit goes to armor in combat (the weapon hits the armor directly), does damage reduction still apply? Or do the hits go straight to damaging the armor?

Just trying to wrap my head around defeating heavily armored spacecraft.

 

[DaMavster]

I found another topic that made mention of an armor limit based on the TL. Is this a number limit? (no more than 10 armor on a 10TL)

Or was the poster referring to the fact that bonded superdense armor is only available at a high tech level?

Thanks.

 

[nDervish]

Maybe I missed it, but what's stopping me from designing a ship with 30% of its hull as Bonded Superdense armor?

The chart at the bottom of High Guard, p. 41, which states that the max armor level for bonded superdense is equal to the TL the ship is built at, so you'd need to find a TL30 shipyard to build that design.

If you're going only with the core rules and ignoring HG, then I guess the only thing stopping you would be the cost (6 MCr/100 dton) and having to give up 30% of your hull volume (I hope you weren't planning to make it a Jump-6 design, too).

That'd be 36 damage reduction, right? Only the meson gun would ever endanger the vessel.

HG has a number of non-meson weapons that can do over 36 damage in a hit, plus there's the "barrage" rules for combining many light weapons into a more powerful attack.

Also, if a hit goes to armor in combat (the weapon hits the armor directly), does damage reduction still apply? Or do the hits go straight to damaging the armor?

Mu. You subtract armor before rolling on the table (on p.150) to determine the number of locations hit. A hit is classified as a "hit to armor" as a result of the hit location roll. Therefore, you cannot determine that a ship has taken an armor hit until after armor has been subtracted from the damage.

 

[F33D]

Maybe I missed it, but what's stopping me from designing a ship with 30% of its hull as Bonded Superdense armor? That'd be 36 damage reduction, right? Only the meson gun would ever endanger the vessel.

Also, if a hit goes to armor in combat (the weapon hits the armor directly), does damage reduction still apply? Or do the hits go straight to damaging the armor?

Just trying to wrap my head around defeating heavily armored spacecraft.

HG page 63 gives the max armour rating allowed. At TL 15 it would be 15... ~13% of hull.

 

[DaMavster]

The chart at the bottom of High Guard, p. 41, which states that the max armor level for bonded superdense is equal to the TL the ship is built at, so you'd need to find a TL30 shipyard to build that design.

If you're going only with the core rules and ignoring HG, then I guess the only thing stopping you would be the cost (6 MCr/100 dton) and having to give up 30% of your hull volume (I hope you weren't planning to make it a Jump-6 design, too).

I only have the Core Book, thinking that as the Core rules, it would be all that was needed. That seems like... quite the oversight... (Not ignoring High Guard. I simply only own the Core)

HG has a number of non-meson weapons that can do over 36 damage in a hit, plus there's the "barrage" rules for combining many light weapons into a more powerful attack.

Same problem. I only have the Core book

Also, if a hit goes to armor in combat (the weapon hits the armor directly), does damage reduction still apply? Or do the hits go straight to damaging the armor?

You subtract armor before rolling on the table (on p.150) to determine the number of locations hit. A hit is classified as a "hit to armor" as a result of the hit location roll. Therefore, you cannot determine that a ship has taken an armor hit until after armor has been subtracted from the damage.

Don't have my book with me. Messed that step up.

So, no way for a smaller vessel to pick away at a larger vessel then?

 

[F33D]

So, no way for a smaller vessel to pick away at a larger vessel then?

Yes, Barrage rule in HG. Although, I heavily house rule it so as to make it logical.

 

[CosmicGamer]

So, no way for a smaller vessel to pick away at a larger vessel then?

Even with your "max armor" situation, there is nothing to stop the larger ship from being just as invulnerable as the smaller one.

There are numerous considerations in ship design. Jump range, maneuverability, cargo capacity, and cost being some. So it is possible for a smaller vessel to pick away at a larger vessel in certain circumstances. A small non jump defense boat could probably tear up a freighter many times it's size.

 

[DaMavster]

On page 66 of the Core rules, it states that a hit with Effect 6+ always inflicts at least 1 point of damage regardless of armor. My only point of confusion is that this is in the personal combat section.

So, does this also apply to vehicles and spacecraft? If so, it means even a heavily armored spacecraft can take damage from a well placed shot.

 

[Jeraa]

On page 66 of the Core rules, it states that a hit with Effect 6+ always inflicts at least 1 point of damage regardless of armor. My only point of confusion is that this is in the personal combat section.

So, does this also apply to vehicles and spacecraft? If so, it means even a heavily armored spacecraft can take damage from a well placed shot.

Character and vehicle combat are detailed in that chapter, so that rule applies to them. Space combat is detailed in its own separate chapter, so that rule doesn't apply to ship combat.

 

[locarno24]

The 'minimum of 1 damage' isn't really for ship combat (as noted it's in a different section). The problem is that 'ground' combat is at a range where you can realistically aim for a given 'bit' of a person or vehiclel there's always a chance of striking a track/lens, or joint, with a sufficiently good shot. Space combat is speed-of-light slow and ultimately comes down to plastering the mathematically predictable possible location of the enemy ship with sufficient random fire; aiming for a given point is more or less impossible.


High Guard is intended as the sourcebook for capital ships, and big, high-tech naval combat.

If you intend to have major ship battles in your campaign (i.e. more than a couple of traders pot-shotting away with lasers) it's something to get hold of as a priority.

It is, however, part of the System Reference Document - i.e. the bit freely available for third party reference, so the key bits of rules changes (if not the careers, artwork, ships, etc) are easy enough to find.

The main extra bits are:

Armour limited to TL.

Options for 'Primitive and Advanced Spacecraft' where Hull and Structure vary with TL for the same size.

Options for high TL drives, weapons, etc, which either take up less space or perform better (but cost more!).

A metric shed-load of new options, from emergency back-up power plants to external docking clamps, and more new weapons than you can shake a sandcaster at, up to and including the 14,000 dTon, spontaneous-existance-failure inducing, Spinal-Mount Meson/D cannon.

The 'barrage combat rules', for resolving entire wings of light fighters or broadsides of several dozen turret mounts, which aren't as bad as a lot of people think (once you get your head around what they're trying to say).