Interesting OGL Licensure Issue...

iamtim

Mongoose
Ok, so, there's an SRD; I already have it. All of the content in the SRD is "open content" as described in the Open Game License. However, according to the copyright notices at the beginning of the RuneQuest rulebook, it contains NO OPEN CONTENT.

I'm not a lawyer, but I've consulted with one extensively about the OGL. How is it possible that one came from the other, yet they are both not open? Does not the OGL clearly state that content once opened can never be closed?

I'm not pitching a fit or anything; I've got the SRD so I'm good. It just piques my curiosity is all.
 
Well, not to start an argument, but I'd disagree.

I'm pretty sure -- but again, I could be wrong -- that if someone writes as a rule, "The fleeburflurbur skill starts at your character's POW+DEX.", as closed content, but then includes that same statement in an open content SRD, that statement is open regardless of where it comes from.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it seems silly; unless someone copies something that does not appear in the SRD, there's no way for Mongoose to tell if what was copied came from the SRD or the book. Which makes it impossible to defend the closed content state of the rulebook.

*shrug*

Again, more an observation than a debate point.
 
Is the SRD freely available somewhere yet?

I imagine the reason that it is done that way is because nothing related to Glorantha is open license. Since many of the books will reference Glorantha they are probably just covering their bases. The SRD only covers the rules, non of the setting info, which is what they want released onder the OGL.
 
iamtim said:
I'm pretty sure -- but again, I could be wrong -- that if someone writes as a rule, "The fleeburflurbur skill starts at your character's POW+DEX.", as closed content, but then includes that same statement in an open content SRD, that statement is open regardless of where it comes from.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it seems silly; unless someone copies something that does not appear in the SRD, there's no way for Mongoose to tell if what was copied came from the SRD or the book. Which makes it impossible to defend the closed content state of the rulebook.

I think the idea is that by making the core book closed and the SRD open, thppse things that they want closed (like RQ specific monster like Broo and Dragonnewts) stay closed, while things that are in the Rulebook and the SRD can be used freely.

This would be easier that putting little TM and C marks all over the book, with notations to let people know of something they can't use.

I guess we will have to see what's in the book that's not in the SRD.
 
Look simple to me as well, and I prefer it this way than having to work out from a paragraph at the front of the book whether what I'm doing is legal or not - sometimes I've seen "what is OGC" paragraphs that appear to contradict themselves in places and leave a grey area over particular parts of the text.

As they've not opened any of the rulebook, if something in the rulebook but not the SRD appears in anyone else's work it's an open and shut case. Stating it the way they have, it's very easy to defend whether a certain rule (or race, or other IP) was copied illegally or not. This way it makes it simpler for everyone involved - it's a message to work solely from the SRD when writing your RQ-derived game.
 
To the best of MY knowledge it is not freely available yet. I run a PDF publishing company and was able to get my hands on the Developers Kit; I *really* want to do some RQ stuff.

If memory serves, I remember reading somewhere that they were going to freely release it a month after the official release of the book, but I could be wrong.
 
Greg Smith said:
Isn't the same true of D&D?
It is. The d20 SRD is open but the D&D PHB, Monster Manual, etc, is copyright WotC. as mthomason says, it means that whenever you write something based on the OGL you have to make sure you reference the SRD and not the PHB (spell name differences, mostly).
 
iamtim said:
I'm not a lawyer, but I've consulted with one extensively about the OGL. How is it possible that one came from the other, yet they are both not open? Does not the OGL clearly state that content once opened can never be closed?
Its the same thing with d20. The d20 SRD is OGL but the PHB, DMG and MM are all closed.

Here is the logic.

Mongoose owns the MRQ rules, its their IP. They have released a part of that IP in the SRD along with an OGL which states that anyone may make use of the IP in the SRD freely subject to the constraints set forth in the OGl.

However, that does not mean that Mongoose stops owning their own IP. They can still do whatever they want with their property including publishing it in a closed format. In effect Mongoose is not publishing the MRQ book under the banner of the OGL, but rather as the owners of the origional.

Its like if you create a painting then take a picture of it. You might hand out copies of the photo and tell people "here, you can do whatever you want with this photo." But you still keep the origional painting and if someone wants to come take a look at it you can still charge them to look at it.

Doing this does not revoke the OGL because Mongoose isn't publising under the OGL. In theory if some third party were to publish under the OGL and then Mongoose were to publish a supplement that included some of that third party content then Mongoose would become an OGL publisher because their right to the third party material ultimately devolves from the OGL. Again, to use the example of DnD this is the reason why you don't see WotC incorporating third party material in their own releases, becasue then they would have to open up their supplements.

As always, IANAL

Hope that helps.
 
It is even stranger than that. As has been pointed out previously, a company actually cannot own a RPG system. They can own the name, special cultures, characters, species, creatures, technical terms, etc.

So while you could write up deer, bears , dogs, mongooses, or centurions for your OGL product, you couldn't wright up A Mind Flayer that's a Rune Priest of Thantar without getting permission from several companies.

And that's a good thing!
 
Quick question:

Would the Mongoose OGL and the D&D SRD allow someone to publish a book of SRD monsters converted over to Runequest stats ?
 
Melkor said:
Quick question:

Would the Mongoose OGL and the D&D SRD allow someone to publish a book of SRD monsters converted over to Runequest stats ?

Yes. I don't know if it would sell, but you can do it.

Hyrum.
 
Melkor said:
Quick question:

Would the Mongoose OGL and the D&D SRD allow someone to publish a book of SRD monsters converted over to Runequest stats ?

Quick Answer:
Yes.

Slow but more significant answer:
Yes, but only if the monsters were from an SRD (an open source). Note that if something is listed in a closed source (like a creatues or monster book) and not in the SRD, it can't be used. About the only exception to this I can think of is if you are using something that exists outside of the setting. For instance, you could convert over horse stats, as horses are not an intellectual property owned by WotC. Ditto with a minotaur. You can't print up Beholder stats though.


For the most part, all of the legendary and mythical monsters had writer-up in early edtions of RQm, and will probably be available in the new RQ monster book.
 
HyrumOWC said:
Melkor said:
Quick question:

Would the Mongoose OGL and the D&D SRD allow someone to publish a book of SRD monsters converted over to Runequest stats ?

Yes. I don't know if it would sell, but you can do it.

Hyrum.

Thanks for the response. I'm just thinking it might make things easier on folks who might like to try using the Runequest rules for a setting like Greyhawk.

The Magic system would also have to be modified based on the rules in the D&D SRD, but that's neither here nor there.
 
atgxtg said:
It is even stranger than that. As has been pointed out previously, a company actually cannot own a RPG system. They can own the name, special cultures, characters, species, creatures, technical terms, etc.

This is also how many d20 derivatives were able to include character creation rules. They could use the "system" that wasn't inside the d20 SRD as long as they avoided slapping the d20 logo on the cover (which specifically required you not to include the rules on assigning values to ability scores) - WotC could not legally claim any ownership over the idea of rolling 3d6 and filling the result into a little box on a character sheet, just copyright over their specific text explaining it, so they got around it by expressly forbidding it in the d20 logo licence.
 
atgxtg said:
It is even stranger than that. As has been pointed out previously, a company actually cannot own a RPG system. They can own the name, special cultures, characters, species, creatures, technical terms, etc.

So while you could write up deer, bears , dogs, mongooses, or centurions for your OGL product, you couldn't wright up A Mind Flayer that's a Rune Priest of Thantar without getting permission from several companies.

And that's a good thing!

Another interesting fact here:

If you were able to get the rights to, say, the Star Trek IP for use in an RPG, there is then absolutely nothing stopping you from taking any of the former out-of-print Star Trek RPGs, removing all graphics (apart from those provided by Paramount, obviously), and then proceeding to rewrite the entire text in your own words. You'll have a 100% compatible system without infringing any copyrights. You paid for the rights to create a derivative work based upon an IP, and wrote the entire text yourself. As long as you avoided using any names and terms invented by the RPG company (which would include any "extended universe" stuff they did such as new races and new worlds not originating from the licensed IP), then it is - to the best of my knowledge - legal.
 
mthomason said:
If you were able to get the rights to, say, the Star Trek IP for use in an RPG, there is then absolutely nothing stopping you from taking any of the former out-of-print Star Trek RPGs, removing all graphics (apart from those provided by Paramount, obviously), and then proceeding to rewrite the entire text in your own words. You'll have a 100% compatible system without infringing any copyrights. You paid for the rights to create a derivative work based upon an IP, and wrote the entire text yourself. As long as you avoided using any names and terms invented by the RPG company (which would include any "extended universe" stuff they did such as new races and new worlds not originating from the licensed IP), then it is - to the best of my knowledge - legal.
And someone could say that this is, more or less, what Mongoose has done with RuneQuest.

Although admittedly the actual changes to the system are probably greater than indicated in the example above. (As for myself, I withhold any judgement until I have the rulebook in my hands).
 
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