Initiative Sinking

[Silvereye]

But B5W had wider arcs than boresights which are the main users and beneficiaries of the Initiative Sink. Also the ships with the higher initiative tended to be the smaller vessels. It gave them a big manoeuverability over the slower and more predicatably moving behemoths. I don't think that the initiative boinus would quite work in this form, as it would make the boresight a lot, lot harder for the larger ships.

 

[kritikalfailure]

Here's another potential solution to initiative sinks and boresight weapons.

When a ship boresights another, it effectively makes a "target lock" with the boresight weapon. The ship must turn as normal to get the boresight weapon aligned.

The boresighting ship may fire the boresight weapon against said target even if the target moves off of the boresight line, unless the targetted ship moves out of the main arc (foreward or aft). It may only fire its boresight weapon against the nominated target.

To me this still puts some inflexibility on boresight weapons, but doesn't make them rely so heavily upon initiative sinks. Obviously boresight weapons still cannot be used with the "Concentrate All Firepower" special actions, since the initial boresight lock must be achieved.

Fast ships or those positioned properly can still escape a boresight, it's just more difficult to do.

 

[Hugbiel]

As a niewbie in this games. There a few thing that didn't fit in my way of seeing the games, ans boresight is one of them.

According to me a ship must be able to use one of his turn to target another ship ( put a counter "firing" on the ship and a counter "target" on the target ),
then during firing phase the ship is turned to boresight his target if he has enought turn, at maximum turn if not.

It's look like more logical than the « Oh shit, our enemy wasn't moving yet, we can't follow him »

 

[Silvereye]

All boresight really means is you have to aim your ship where you want the weapon to fire. It is usually very easy to get a boresight lined up on one of your opponents ships. It might not be the target you want, but you will be able to make a shot at it.

Hugbiel, if you target a ship that later moves, then you should have aimed at a better target. If your opponet has more ships than you, clearly they can limit what you can aim your boresights at. So you either need to take more initiative sinks then them (hence this discussion about lots of small ships) or eliminate their numerical ship advantage by killing their escorts.

kriticalfailure, with the method you outlined, you might as well just make all boresights a fore arc.

 

[Iain McGhee]

Actually the 'gentlemans agreement' does not get you any latitude as far as I knew. The one refered to around here is just that you cannot 'bore' a ship that has not already moved. Strictly a limit on the bore ship rather than a 'close enough' type agreement.

Ripple

We/I usually just allow a boresight if the target has already moved, or is unable to move, and the firing ship can turn enough to roughly line up on it rather than argueing about whether it's a degree or two out. As long as the firing ship has enough turn left to easily line up. Saves a lot of time and money (in the swearbox :wink: )

 

[philogara]

A suggestion for you to consider based on the idea that you can only activate as many ships/squadrons as the PL value +1 (+highest command bonus).

To get the best return from the greater amount of smaller ships they will be fielded as part of a squadron to ensure they can all act in a turn (e.g. cap ship and escorts or assault groups). Basically create movement steps. A first tier of movement where drifting hulks are moved, a second tier where ships that are out of squadron are moved (as normal by initiative order), a third tier where squadrons and other ships move as normal (again restarting in initiative order) and a fourth tier where fighters move. Firing could be resolved fighters, squadrons/ships, dropped ships from squadrons.

Ships that are dropped out of squadron could also be moved during tier 3 providing there is sufficient activation slots for them.

Perhaps something like this but based on PL? e.g. all Patrol first, then skirmish, etc. if you want favour the bigger ships.

 

[kritikalfailure]

kriticalfailure, with the method you outlined, you might as well just make all boresights a fore arc.

Partially true, I just feel they are much too difficult to line up on high priority targets. I see how they should be _somewhat_ weaker than Fore weapons, but not something that's laughably avoidable.

The squadron system might work out, though.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Partially true, I just feel they are much too difficult to line up on high priority targets. I see how they should be _somewhat_ weaker than Fore weapons, but not something that's laughably avoidable.

Ah, yes, the "Have your cake AND eat it" theory :lol:

Wulf

 

[Slightly Norse John]

There is a logic to Boresight. In some sci fi universes, heavy weapons structurally embedded in the ship formed a large- for the Traveller big ships, only useful- part of their armament.
You think Omegas are bad? Try a BI-15. One major mount, dead-ahead boresight, and upwards of three thousand other, turret, weapons, all of which had a roughly 1 in 216 chance of doing anything to an armoured warship target.
Just enough to make them necessary, not enough to make them anything except absolutely maddening. Whenever I start grumbling about ACtA, I pull out some of the old MegaTraveller stuff, and think 'Oh, well, it isn't that bad.'
Moving by PL would be equally artificial, but it would at least represent something- bigger ships having better sensors and better command and control, smaller ships depending on their speed, and surviving on the basis of reflexes rather than cool judgement.

 

[Ripple]

Not quite as bad as all that Wulf...he just commented on the amount of restriction is perhaps too high. Reasonable statement in the eyes of many players, and as is pointed out in this thread sometimes it does seem silly that a ship cannot follow the movement of its intended target because he has other little ships off in a corner or opening jump points in hyper.

Ripple

 

[Hugbiel]

All boresight really means is you have to aim your ship where you want the weapon to fire. It is usually very easy to get a boresight lined up on one of your opponents ships. It might not be the target you want, but you will be able to make a shot at it.

Hugbiel, if you target a ship that later moves, then you should have aimed at a better target. If your opponet has more ships than you, clearly they can limit what you can aim your boresights at. So you either need to take more initiative sinks then them (hence this discussion about lots of small ships) or eliminate their numerical ship advantage by killing their escorts.

I know that, but that's how it work by now, and according to my vision it's look quite silly. It's not how i feel it must work in such games.

My starting set to learn the game is myself against myself, tournaments list, Whitestar + Victory against Warlock + Chronos.
And IMHO if the big ship want to boresight each other they must be able to do so and not to be forced to shoot at the escort.
I don't see any valid reason to don't allow that. If you have such rules as interceptor you may have a waiting turn.

Maybe the easiest way to allow boresight on the most wanted and accessible target would be to allow ship firing during his mouvement.

It may be my bias, but i don't see the point of having a non-syncronous fire and having an attack phase.
For example take a head on, Whitestar against a Bimith. There's no match. APTE if no init and no way the Bimith can even be in range. His quad rapid firing cannon cannot try anything against a target that pass close to him ... It's quite extreme but it's how it work on the limits of the rules.

 

[sidewinder]

You know, a friend of mine said he helped play test an early version of ACtA and originally all you had to do was be able to hit the enemy base with a boresite, not the stem. Made it easier to hit bigger ships then smaller ones, bigger ships generally have larger bases and all that.

 

[Ripple]

That would be nice, but would require standardized bases.

Ripple

 

[Davesaint]

Having pondered it for a while, I like the idea that I that was proposed earlier in the year that borsight ships can fire half their AD round up in the forward arc, but only get to fire the full amount of AD when they are truely boresighted.

Ripple, I think we should try this out over the next few weeks.

Dave

 

[LordClinto]

You know, a friend of mine said he helped play test an early version of ACtA and originally all you had to do was be able to hit the enemy base with a boresite, not the stem. Made it easier to hit bigger ships then smaller ones, bigger ships generally have larger bases and all that.

I like how this sounds but agree it would require official base sizes. (And heaven forbid, what would you do with a Brivoki?)


What about a very minor fire arc for boresights? Say 5 or 10 degrees.
Similar in size to a Warmachine Flame Template maybe?
http://www.gf9.com/store/popup_image.php?pID=131

 

[meglos]

i have to agree with lordclinto i think the 5 or 10 degree is a good idea for boresight weapons as ships are supposed to move at the same time so you would be able to track your target not "fire on that ship there"" sorry sir we cannot its our turn to move due to that drakh raider moving at the other side of the battle zone so we wont be in boresight to shoot that massive drakh mothership in front of us"
:lol:

 

[Epaminondas]

going to a battletech similar system for initiative would solve alot of int sink issues; the other idea I just had was what about a special order for boresight ships?

Maneuver to boresight them! CQ check on a 8 or 9, nominate a target. The firing ship may not fire weapons outside the frontal (or rear if that is the boresight being used) arc. Move the firing ship at least half its base speed, no turns permitted. After the target ship has moved, you may align the firing ship to get a boresight shot on the target. You may not turn the firing ship more then its maximum turn.

Allows the boresighter a chance to order his ship to "track" the target, but adds some risk of losing the boresight.