MarcusIII
Cosmic Mongoose
The ship would wait one week and get cargo at that point.
Mating Airlocks to Cargo Hatches
- Thread starter Terry Mixon
- Start date
Fluffy Bunny Feet
Emperor Mongoose
I don't have an up to date CRB and what I do have doesn't indicate how often you can reroll BUT for speculative trading there is a DM -1 for each attempt in the same month. Some planets are inherently poor for trade add a DM -1 and it can go from poor to worse, especially for major cargoes. Especially if there are campaign reasons for it.
My main point was that the free traders will often have the high port as their destination. But also that there is probably speculative trade exchange going on at most highports. All you're locating are brokers; in many (most?) cases those aren't end-buyers.
A particular Free Trader doing speculative trade may well be going from high port to high port and avoiding all that inconvenient weather and gravity. The trade system pretty much confirms it, with the random availability rolls for cargoes that often could not be produced locally.
A particular Free Trader doing speculative trade may well be going from high port to high port and avoiding all that inconvenient weather and gravity. The trade system pretty much confirms it, with the random availability rolls for cargoes that often could not be produced locally.
I do believe the rules say "suppliers or brokers". But, ultimately, I disagree with your assertion because I think it is mistaking "rules to make players able to do stuff" with "how things happen in general".
The rules are designed so that the players are going to get cargo no matter where they are (except maybe red zones). If we treat the whole world as functioning like that, things get pretty weird IMHO. You may disagree.
The rules are designed so that the players are going to get cargo no matter where they are (except maybe red zones). If we treat the whole world as functioning like that, things get pretty weird IMHO. You may disagree.
In regards to frequency, for passengers and freight it's not specified. The roll is basically made around the time the ship is preparing to depart. That makes a certain amount of sense if you assume there is a background of other ships operating as the default... passengers and freight will arrive and depart over any given period of time. If you hold off departing for a month, it isn't necessarily going to give you more passengers than if you jumped right away (the ones that were there a month ago may have already left on another ship). But if you do get a low roll, waiting a bit to see if things are better in a few days also checks out.
Speculative cargo DOES specify it, and it's all about finding a Supplier. 1D days normally, 1D6 hours online. With a -1 per previous attempt in the last month.
Speculative cargo DOES specify it, and it's all about finding a Supplier. 1D days normally, 1D6 hours online. With a -1 per previous attempt in the last month.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Freight tends to have a flat rate, as does passenger passages.
What we tend to add in, is the cost of delivering the goods so that they can be loaded onboard, or take delivery.
I rather doubt starships are permitted to land anywhere they please dirtside, so whether they land on launchpads planetside, or make arrangements to transfer the goods while still in orbit, may depend on convenience and/or cost.
What we tend to add in, is the cost of delivering the goods so that they can be loaded onboard, or take delivery.
I rather doubt starships are permitted to land anywhere they please dirtside, so whether they land on launchpads planetside, or make arrangements to transfer the goods while still in orbit, may depend on convenience and/or cost.
Fabricators still require feedstock. We are told you can make things for maybe as low.as 10% of their base cost, not for free.
We could be post scarcity for food now. It doesn't prevent famine if that food remains in a warehouse.or in the hands of a warlord.
The game assumes trade. Even semi-utopian settings like Star Trek have regular visits to planets that have trade economies and whilst thay can replicate almost anything they still need to travel to planet x for unobtainium.
I don't see fabricators as trade breakers, they just change the nature of the trade for the
planets that can afford to run them.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
That's the easy part, it is deliberate. The Imperium maintain a wealth and economy gradiant by not developing all worlds to TL15.
Why use the word conceit rather than concept - I have noticed this over the last few years.
Conceit to me has always had a negative meaning:
conceit
1. the state of being too proud of yourself and your actions: 2. a clever or…
The small crew size on starships indicate to me that the ship is itself only one step removed from a robot.
People try to make it look like it is today, the folks at GURPS used economic models that don't really fir the setting.
The reality of trade in the 57th century will be very different.
Which is why we got the PC mini game and not the movement of RUs between worlds...
Because conceit has more than one meaning and it is the correct word for the use I put it to. It comes from the same root as "conceive". Unlike concept, it suggests a deliberate choice for effect. It also has a meaning in poetry related to an extended metaphor.That's the easy part, it is deliberate. The Imperium maintain a wealth and economy gradiant by not developing all worlds to TL15.
Why use the word conceit rather than concept - I have noticed this over the last few years.
Conceit to me has always had a negative meaning:
conceit
1. the state of being too proud of yourself and your actions: 2. a clever or…dictionary.cambridge.org
The small crew size on starships indicate to me that the ship is itself only one step removed from a robot.
People try to make it look like it is today, the folks at GURPS used economic models that don't really fir the setting.
The reality of trade in the 57th century will be very different.
Which is why we got the PC mini game and not the movement of RUs between worlds...
Ships are highly automated. There's no reason they couldn't be autonomous with the technology available to the 3I. In fact, they are in some places outside of the 3I and even within it.
Trade in the future will be absolutely different. So different we don't have any reasonable way of quantifying it or using it effectively in storytelling within the game. So we make decisions about what we want it to look like and Traveller leaves it pretty vague so the maximum amount of those preferences are workable within the rules.
NOLATrav
Emperor Mongoose
Maybe we just need a D66 table of “Why this shipment is Un/Available” that has plot hooks/fluff to sprinkle about. It doesn’t matter if every system can produce everything locally, sometimes Jethro’s thingamajig craps out and he needs shit shipped in.
Or, what if the regularly scheduled big freighter misjumped?
Or, what if the regional Class A port is operating with a skeleton crew due to governmental difficulties? The Free Traders get out there and start scooping up opportunities and keep the spice flowing.
Feels like we’re overthinking this subject.
But I wholeheartedly agree that in-system action is a severely underdeveloped aspect of Traveller and I absolutely to the best of my ability develop solar systems and their various internal logistics/politics/economics as best I can. I try to give my players seeds in a system that last for a month or so chasing opportunities and ”fixing” things before jumping out. It’s pretty cathartic to get out of the “Mainworld to Mainworld” routine.
Or, what if the regularly scheduled big freighter misjumped?
Or, what if the regional Class A port is operating with a skeleton crew due to governmental difficulties? The Free Traders get out there and start scooping up opportunities and keep the spice flowing.
Feels like we’re overthinking this subject.
But I wholeheartedly agree that in-system action is a severely underdeveloped aspect of Traveller and I absolutely to the best of my ability develop solar systems and their various internal logistics/politics/economics as best I can. I try to give my players seeds in a system that last for a month or so chasing opportunities and ”fixing” things before jumping out. It’s pretty cathartic to get out of the “Mainworld to Mainworld” routine.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Vaccines, that would be unscheduled, and next week delivery.
Something I had entirely overlooked was observed in another thread. Ships computers have Intellect and can run conventional Expert packages and that a ship with Expert Pilot can fly itself. That means you can do away entirely with the crew for a ships boat at a price point far below what I was assuming (using Virtual Crew) or a robot since the only role that actually requires a sophont is Astrogator (which is only for jumping). Any pilot touting for business on the basis of "sophont's are better" will need to be competing with that price point. Expert/2 Pilot which gives Pilot(smallcraft) 1 is a one-off payment of KCr10 as the ships computer is already capable of running it. This is less than Cr50 per month if you add it to a mortgage. The equivalent sophont would cost you Cr6000 in wages. Clearly owner-operators don't need to pay themselves that much but you still have to meet the life support costs and lose at least 1 DTon for barracks equivalent accommodation.
Now your running costs for a mustered out ship's boat on intra system deliveries become solely the fuel and maintenance for 21 Dton and a Billion Km round trip per week. I can't see the journey being further so that means you only need to charge Cr5 per DTon per week to break even.
In regard to competing for in-system jump ships I had also neglected the 100D limits of the the two worlds at either end (and the main could easily be in the jump shadow of the sun extending transit times significantly). Transit to a gas giant could take half a day. If you need to spend even a single day total in transit then the extra time saved by the jump might not add any real time advantage vs a ship that has been accelerating the whole time. At only 1G (and most small craft are better than this) you can travel a Billion km in the time it could take you to just conduct the jump part. How far out are these outer system outposts to make a jump worth while?
I was just using Ship's Boats as they are a benefit, but if you don't mind half the turn-around time the Launch can move 15 DTons and a higher proportion of payload. If you own it free and clear you can charge about the same as the Ship's Boat. If you need to pay off the mortgage however you need to find another C1000 per month which will significantly increase your freight costs to Cr16 per DTon per week.
Cr10 per DTon per day might be a good generic price that allows enough profit for entry level freighters without being hugely attractive to large craft. A price per day accounts for paying extra for long distances or express deliveries to closer destinations. No-one is going to get particularly rich this way but a Ship's Boat can make over KCr6 per maintenance period. That is enough to cover all costs and allow a few grand per month for the space-bum owner operator or over KCr5 if the ships is automated. The Launch has it a little tougher especially if it needs to make the mortgage, but can still scrape by. No-one is getting rich quick, but then the risks are low and it may just be a training job for junior pilots (Pilot-0)* who left a career after basic training (Scavenger for example). A few years of experience on your docket plus the time you actually spent training on those boring long transits might set you up for a more lucrative career.
I feel that dozens of little craft regularly flitting to and fro is more sustainable than one big one every other week. The landing facilities on any remote outpost need only be rudimentary for a 20-30 Dton craft. And loosing one will be less impactful. It is also better for the health of a colony to have regular visits picking up your 100 Dtons of production and delivering the mail than knowing the next scheduled supply ship is in a month.
It is easy to envisage a few 10's of DTons each week as a regular thing. The smaller the craft the more regular the visits and the easier to manage staff turn over, emergent supply issues etc.
For a single player game it would allow a different planet per week, long periods of character off-screen time for training and the like but within the same system which is less of a referee headache and justifies a more developed background with slow-burn plot developments that don't require the entire sector to be at risk. Being set in only a single system the influence of any empire might be remote or looming.
* If the base wage corresponds to Pilot-1 and higher levels get +50% per level it is reasonable to assume a Pilot-0 could command -50% and Cr3000 per month.
Now your running costs for a mustered out ship's boat on intra system deliveries become solely the fuel and maintenance for 21 Dton and a Billion Km round trip per week. I can't see the journey being further so that means you only need to charge Cr5 per DTon per week to break even.
In regard to competing for in-system jump ships I had also neglected the 100D limits of the the two worlds at either end (and the main could easily be in the jump shadow of the sun extending transit times significantly). Transit to a gas giant could take half a day. If you need to spend even a single day total in transit then the extra time saved by the jump might not add any real time advantage vs a ship that has been accelerating the whole time. At only 1G (and most small craft are better than this) you can travel a Billion km in the time it could take you to just conduct the jump part. How far out are these outer system outposts to make a jump worth while?
I was just using Ship's Boats as they are a benefit, but if you don't mind half the turn-around time the Launch can move 15 DTons and a higher proportion of payload. If you own it free and clear you can charge about the same as the Ship's Boat. If you need to pay off the mortgage however you need to find another C1000 per month which will significantly increase your freight costs to Cr16 per DTon per week.
Cr10 per DTon per day might be a good generic price that allows enough profit for entry level freighters without being hugely attractive to large craft. A price per day accounts for paying extra for long distances or express deliveries to closer destinations. No-one is going to get particularly rich this way but a Ship's Boat can make over KCr6 per maintenance period. That is enough to cover all costs and allow a few grand per month for the space-bum owner operator or over KCr5 if the ships is automated. The Launch has it a little tougher especially if it needs to make the mortgage, but can still scrape by. No-one is getting rich quick, but then the risks are low and it may just be a training job for junior pilots (Pilot-0)* who left a career after basic training (Scavenger for example). A few years of experience on your docket plus the time you actually spent training on those boring long transits might set you up for a more lucrative career.
I feel that dozens of little craft regularly flitting to and fro is more sustainable than one big one every other week. The landing facilities on any remote outpost need only be rudimentary for a 20-30 Dton craft. And loosing one will be less impactful. It is also better for the health of a colony to have regular visits picking up your 100 Dtons of production and delivering the mail than knowing the next scheduled supply ship is in a month.
It is easy to envisage a few 10's of DTons each week as a regular thing. The smaller the craft the more regular the visits and the easier to manage staff turn over, emergent supply issues etc.
For a single player game it would allow a different planet per week, long periods of character off-screen time for training and the like but within the same system which is less of a referee headache and justifies a more developed background with slow-burn plot developments that don't require the entire sector to be at risk. Being set in only a single system the influence of any empire might be remote or looming.
* If the base wage corresponds to Pilot-1 and higher levels get +50% per level it is reasonable to assume a Pilot-0 could command -50% and Cr3000 per month.
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