Increasing skill levels -- House Rule.

[DFW]

"If a character has one or more level in a skill (Level 1, Level 2,
and so on) then he is trained in that skill. Each rank represents
several years of experience using that skill. A character with Level
2–3 in a skill is a skilled professional in that field. A character with
Medic 2 could be a doctor; a character with Medic 4 is a famous
surgeon or specialist."

"To increase a skill, a character must train for a number of weeks
equal to his current Skill Total plus the desired level of the skill. So,
to advance from Pilot 2 to Pilot 3 with a current Skill Total of 3 would
take (three, plus three) six weeks."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Based on the description of what skill level represent (1st para above) I have modified the rule to increase skill levels.

To gain a new skill or, go from level 0 to level 1, I apply the rule as written (para 2 above).

To go from a skill level 1 to 2 or, 2 to 3, etc., I require 2 years of fairly constant use & study. For example, a Medic 2 (doctor) who wants to get to Medic 3 requires 2 years WITH study on the side IF, he is practicing that profession as his main job. IF the character is only rarely using that skill, it takes 4 years.

A character who is a free trader pilot and is actively doing that job, 2 years + some study to go from pilot 1 to pilot 2.

 

[Treebore]

For PC's? I normally do not run a game that even lasts 2 to 4 years. I have, but not nearly as often as I have games that have lasted less than 6 months or a year, meaning actual campaign time. Not how long the group lasts.

So I could see that as a guideline for NPC's, but even then I don't see it working well for people who work at a given job for 20 or more years.

The reason being then you will have people who work in a specific job field for 40 years before retiring legitimately asking why their PC doesn't have a rank 5, 6, or 7 in that skill, aside from other modifiers.

Personally I like to require a Education/Intelligence check. As the rank increases the difficulty increases as well. 0 rank is Easy/Routine, 1 and 2 is Difficult, and 3 and above is always Formidable. So whenever a training attempt is made, and an "attempt" is any time a player/NPC puts in a conscious effort to increase the rank of a given skill, at the end of the time involved they must also make this check to successfully get the increase.

So combine this with other requirements I have found that the rate of increase in skill ranks helps things feel in line with how long people have been working in their given profession and still have maybe a lower rank.

 

[DFW]

The reason being then you will have people who work in a specific job field for 40 years before retiring legitimately asking why their PC doesn't have a rank 5, 6, or 7 in that skill, aside from other modifiers.

Probably because a 60 yr old doctor isn't usually that much more competent (level 6 or 7 bonus) than a 35 year old doctor (level 2).

Remember, a level 4 would be world renowned in his field...

 

[Treebore]

Yeah, I know, but the rules you post above don't cover WHY a person would never get higher and higher with decades and decades of experience and study.

One of the ways I do it is the rule I outline above, the other is I have a skill ceiling of 4 anyways. So no matter what, a character will never have higher than a base skill of 4 before other modifiers. So someone with a 15 will have a max of +7, Cybernetics, Psi, and other things can make it even higher. Such things making even Formidable tasks seem routine. Rank of 4 and a +3 Attribute mod already makes Formidable obstacles almost routine.

 

[DFW]

Yeah, I know, but the rules you post above don't cover WHY a person would never get higher and higher with decades and decades of experience and study.

Well, you can only get SO good as there is a limit to knowledge in any area and a limit to human int. Those two factors would limit in and of themselves.

But, yes I also pretty much limit to "4". It makes no sense to take only weeks to become a world renowned scientist though.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

Yeah, I tend to go with the level 4 max, certainly for str, dex and end skill, might be persuaded to allow higher scores in int skills if someone rolls up Einstein.

Not overly keen on skill acquisition in play, so stick to the core rule book rules, which make the acquistion of extra skills time consuming, but can be persuaded to allow a free level 0 if a character is spending a lot of time helping out others that are more experience, e.g. the barbarian picked up as a bit of a mascot (and his ability with low tech weapons) spends a lot of time in jump with the engineer, learning the magic of machines. After two years, why not give him a Mechanic 0 skill?

Egil

 

[zero]

Hang on a second, did I just realise based on DFW's training for a week of current skill level plus desired skill level that you can train from level 0 in a skill to level 1 in a week?

I know how I'll be spending my Jump times now! :lol: (and to think I was going to waste them on sleep, eating algae and chilling in the holoroom! :lol: )

So, what if someone wanted to learn a new skill aka, get level 0 in it from no skill at all, based on Traveller rules?

 

[rust]

So, what if someone wanted to learn a new skill aka, get level 0 in it from no skill at all, based on Traveller rules?

It would depend on the sum of all the skill levels the character already
has. For example, someone with 5 skills of level 1 would need 5 weeks,
someone with 5 skills of level 3 would need 15 weeks.

And please do not ask me about my opinion on this rule ... :evil:

 

[DFW]

e.g. the barbarian picked up as a bit of a mascot (and his ability with low tech weapons) spends a lot of time in jump with the engineer, learning the magic of machines. After two years, why not give him a Mechanic 0 skill?

Egil

I agree. Skills that don't take much if any class work can be "picked up" at 0
with use. The world is filled with such people in the trades.

 

[DFW]

Hang on a second, did I just realise based on DFW's training for a week of current skill level plus desired skill level that you can train from level 0 in a skill to level 1 in a week?

Not based on my rule. That part is in the CRB.

 

[apoc527]

Just for fun, here are my new improved rules for advancement. These were written for my group in mind, which is used to receiving "XP." (I make no value judgment on XP...my group is an experienced group that ironically was not raised on D&D.)

Characteristic increases: 10x the cost of desired characteristic number in XP. So, if you have Dex 8, and want to buy Dex 9, it costs you 90 "XP." You also must train for a number of weeks equal to the new characteristic. You cannot train another characteristic while training to increase any other characteristic.

Skill increases: The cost of a new skill rank in XP is equal to 10*(X+1)^2 where X is the desired skill level. For example, if you have no skill and want Rank 0, you must spend 10 XP. Rank 1 costs 40 XP. Rank 2 costs 90 XP. Rank 3 costs 160 XP, etc. You also must train for a number of weeks equal to the new skill level + HALF your “Skill Total” as defined by MGT Core. This number cannot be reduced by spending XP. You must declare which skill is being trained.

XP Expectations: I will be awarding 20-30 XP per night. Additionally, one thing I like doing is allowing the players to give out extra XP for excellent roleplaying--this rewards good roleplaying and lets the players recognize each other for it. For example, I'd make a pool of 40 XP or so and let the PCs vote on how to divide it up based on roleplaying after each evening or each plot arc.

 

[zero]

*Looks at rust's reply then my own character sheet*

I have ten lvl 1 skills, one at lvl 2 and seven at lvl 0.

Thats a total of 12 weeks to pick up a skill they dont have at level 0 right?

 

[rust]

Thats a total of 12 weeks to pick up a skill they dont have at level 0 right?

Yep.

 

[DFW]

XP Expectations: I will be awarding 20-30 XP per night.

So, the major unknown variable is how much game time does a "night" represent?

 

[apoc527]

XP Expectations: I will be awarding 20-30 XP per night.

So, the major unknown variable is how much game time does a "night" represent?

Depends on the setting and what's going on, obviously. For me, though, advancement is tied more to real life time passage than game passage. The players, not the PCs, want to feel like their characters are improving. It's a stylistic thing.

 

[DFW]

Depends on the setting and what's going on, obviously. For me, though, advancement is tied more to real life time passage than game passage. The players, not the PCs, want to feel like their characters are improving. It's a stylistic thing.

Thanks. I understand. Not a bad system but, no way to compare to an in game system.

 

[Emeraldknite]

Hey, This is my first reply on this board. Just joined today. But I had to atleast chime in on the Traveller so called skill advancement.

My group and I ran the figures on being able to get a new skill at 0. By their rule you add up all of your skill levels and then that is how many weeks it would take to gain that new skill. So what they are telling me is that as you get more skills it is harder for you to learn anything. Which is odd that people in the future cannot learn correctly. One player in our group with no gun combat would take almost 6 months to learn the basics of using a gun (level 0)

As Tabletop gamers, some of us would like to see characters advance and be able to achieve the goal that we set for our characters when we made them. So Our fix was this: To raise a skill it takes a training period of a number of weeks equivalent to the skill level that you would like to raise it to. To gain a new 0 level skill it takes 2 weeks. Training is 5 days a week 8-10 hours a day. Traveller Characters have a lot of down time when you consider going through jump space takes at the bare minimum of 1 week. Only one skill can be trained at a time and if you start training another skill then you lose the training of the previous and would have to start from the beginning.

Not perfect but works for people that like to see character growth that is not only money and gear.

We have not agreed on the process for characteristics we are still toying around with what seems reasonable.

 

[DFW]

One player in our group with no gun combat would take almost 6 months to learn the basics of using a gun (level 0)

I think Gun combat is more than learning how to aim and pull the trigger. It is how to properly engage with that weapon during combat situations AND gun care, etc.

But, yes the mechanism is more designed for game balance considerations than RL. Note, some "skills" would take far longer to learn that others too...

 

[Treebore]

Personally I just try to follow real life. I was trained in both the military and colleges, so when a player is ready to advance a skill I tell them how much time they need to commit to learning that skill and how many creds the software, any gear/equipment, etc... cost and call it good. I then require them to make an INT or EDU check to see if they "passed". The higher the skill they are going for the higher I set the difficulty. Plus, like I think I said earlier in this thread, I set the max skill rank at 4. To go above that you need attribute bonus' or bonus' from Psi or other tech enhancements.

 

[GamerDude]

One player in our group with no gun combat would take almost 6 months to learn the basics of using a gun (level 0)

I think Gun combat is more than learning how to aim and pull the trigger. It is how to properly engage with that weapon during combat situations AND gun care, etc.

MGT Core Rulebook, PG 6 "SKILLS": "If a character has zero level in a skill (Skill 0), then he is competent in using that skill, but has little experience. He does not get any bonus from his skill ranks when using that skill but at least he avoids the penalty for being untrained."

Note I highlighted the word "Competent". Why? Look at what the word means (from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/competent)

com·pe·tent
   /ˈkɒmpɪtənt/ Show Spelled[kom-pi-tuhnt] Show IPA
–adjective
1. having suitable or sufficient skill, knowledge, experience, etc., for some purpose; properly qualified: He is perfectly competent to manage the bank branch.

Just because someone takes you out to a shooting range, shows you how to load, unload, chamber a round and shoot well enough to hit the big paper target, that doesn't make you competent. It makes you 'familiar'. I wouldn't trust you to take a gun out of the case or do more than hit someone standing over you if they paused before attacking you (letting you get off a shot).

Competent means (to me) in a stressful situation you can keep your head, remember the basic skills, reload, aim properly, decent breath control, not pull the trigger at the slightest thing that jumps out at you (or makes a sudden, loud noise). For weapons, the military, law enforcement, even hunter safety classes don't consider you 'competent' without extensive training and practice. 'Proficient' might be considered before that, meaning you are familiar with the basics and can routinely perform all actions in a situation that is not a RL stress situation.

Here is a short web-article about police weapons training. Read what they go through to become at least 'proficient' if not 'competent'. http://www.ehow.com/about_6389655_police-weapons-training.html

But, yes the mechanism is more designed for game balance considerations than RL. Note, some "skills" would take far longer to learn that others too...

Very true. Nuclear Physics vs Gun Combat.