Increasing skill levels -- House Rule.

in classic traveller, to increase a skill by 1 level, you had to train for 4 years, then make an 8+ endurance check with a penalty to the roll equal to the level you were raising the skill to (so going from 2 to 3, you suffered a -3 penalty to the roll)

failure meant you did not learn the skill even after 4 years of training.
 
AlphaWhelp said:
in classic traveller, to increase a skill by 1 level, you had to train for 4 years, then make an 8+ endurance check with a penalty to the roll equal to the level you were raising the skill to (so going from 2 to 3, you suffered a -3 penalty to the roll)

failure meant you did not learn the skill even after 4 years of training.
And as "canon" as that is, it was a ridiculous concept. Having 4 college degrees including an advanced on (all in the computer field) I know that's not how life works, but that's how I would consider keeping it if playing CT. (Actually if I remember right, I did like a year and an Edu check, but it's been too long and too many versions to remember accurately.
 
AlphaWhelp said:
in classic traveller, to increase a skill by 1 level, you had to train for 4 years, then make an 8+ endurance check with a penalty to the roll equal to the level you were raising the skill to (so going from 2 to 3, you suffered a -3 penalty to the roll)

failure meant you did not learn the skill even after 4 years of training.

If I remember correctly, you got to use the new skill level immediately after making the dedication roll. As long as you spent the requisite money on study materials during the "term", you kept the skill. If after 4 years you wanted KEEP the new level, then you had to make another dedication roll, and maybe spend another 4 years "solidifiying" your understanding or something. I'm not as clear on that part since it's been a really long time since I used those rules.

At the end of the "term", you could also just abandon the new skill and try for another one, under the "yeah I was into X a few years ago, but now I'm into Y and don't really do much of X any more" theory.

Of course, 4 years is a heck of a long time in-game, even considering that crossing a subsector in a J-1 Type-A could take the better part of half a year. In my games, I let the players keep any skills they actually spent a full 4 years studying, but if they either ran out of money or patience, they lost the level and had to start over. I don't know how I would have handled a temporary interruption; it didn't come up in the game. I would probably "charge" and extra month per month off or something.

The "continuing education" costs helped serve as a pull for characters who were crew instead of owners of a ship. Sometimes, salaries aren't quite enough....
 
I've been using the system below. It requires some book-keeping but so far seems to be fairly in line with the Char Gen time-frames without putting increases out of the realm of the players' reach.

Note that sometimes a Trainer may be someone the PC already knows, ie, a ship/party mate, in which case no throw is required to find a Trainer.

Instruction skill (if used) can add a +DM equal to the Instructor's Level, but also increases cost by +10% per Instructor's Level.


Stats
- To increase one Stat by +1 takes 24 non-consecutive weeks.
Each week a successful Average (+0) Endurance check must be
made; when 24 successful checks have been made, increase Stat
by +1
- Once begun, each lapse of one month adds an additional week
to the required total
- Failure of the check results in one week passing but not
applied to the required total
- Normal Stat DMs apply to the END check, ie, DM +0 for Stat
6-8, DM +1 for Stat 9-B, etc. Instruction skill may also apply.
- For each occurrence of Effect 6+, subtract one additional
week from the required total
- Cost is Cr15 per week rolled + GM fiat
- Only one particular Stat may be improved at any one time.
Skills
- NOTE : USE COMMON SENSE : Gun skills require target ranges, Ship
skills require ships or simulations, etc. Trainers and
Materials can be physical items and sophonts, computer or
robotic aids, etc but are also ammo, information fees,
expendable items, equipment upgrades, possibly bribes, etc
- NOTE : In certain situations it may be impossible to improve
skills (frontier region, stranded, high Law, low Tech, etc)
- To acquire Level-0 in any unknown skill:
- Find Trainer or Training Materials : Difficult (-2)
<Skill to be improved>, 1D6 Weeks (or GM fiat)
- Train for 12 non-consecutive weeks : Average (+0) EDU
check per week for success. Instruction may apply
- Once begun, each lapse of one month adds an additional
week to the required total
- Failure of the check results in one week passing but not
being applied to the required total
- Normal Stat DMs apply to the EDU check, ie, DM +0 for
Stat 6-8, DM +1 for Stat 9-B, etc
- For each occurrence of Effect 6+, subtract one additional
week from the required total
- Cost is Cr150 per week rolled + GM fiat (success OR failure)
- To raise a Level-0 Skill to Level-1:
- Find Trainer or Training Materials : Average (+0) <Skill
to be improved>, 2D6 Weeks (or GM fiat)
- Train for 24 non-consecutive weeks : Average (+0) EDU
check per week for success. Instruction may apply
- Once begun, each lapse of one month adds an additional
week to the required total
- Failure of the check results in one week passing but not
applied to the required total
- Normal Stat DMs apply to the EDU check, ie, DM +0 for
Stat 6-8, DM +1 for Stat 9-B, etc
- For each occurrence of Effect 6+, subtract one additional
week from the required total
- Cost is Cr250 per week rolled + GM fiat (success OR failure)
- Beyond Level-1:
- As above, but time required is 48 weeks + desired skill
level, for example 50 weeks for Level-2, 51 weeks for
Level-3, etc
- One cannot jump levels, but must progress through each;
each level requires the time indicated above
- Finding a Trainer / Materials increases by one difficulty
level and one week for each skill level beyond Level-1.
For example Level-2 = Difficult, <Skill>, 2D6+1 weeks;
Level-3 = Very Difficult, <Skill>, 2D6+2 weeks; Level-4+
= Formidable, <Skill>, 2D6+3 weeks
- Cost increases by Cr15 x desired skill level per week,
for example Cr280 per week for Level-2, Cr295 per week
for Level-3, etc


Thoughts/tweaks appeciated.
 
Looks like a fairly interesting yet reasonable system.

I can understand MGT not having a detailed "training system" since the game isn't about training, its about almost anything else your character can do in its life.

Still, I like this one. Good enough (IMO) to have been a S&P article.
 
Can see PCs gaining level 0 skills during a game, given number of such from 'basic training' and that nobody 'fails' to get them.

Level 0 is defined as no real experience - so book, AI Holo-trained, what have you, and at little cost.
Also, given typical -3 for no skill level, could allow (-2 ) and (-1) during learning.
Unless one is playing a long campaign - wouldn't worry about higher levels.

So something very simple, like:
  • Level 0 weeks = 2d6+10 - (Int DM + Edu DM).
    One skill at a time.
    Interruptions do not count/affect (avoid party 'halting' game to 'level up').
    1/3 weeks rounded up, Level (-2).
    2/3 weeks rounded up, Level (-1).
So, if learning during jump weeks, ~ 6-11 months for average PCs with truly exceptional ones doing it in as little as 3.
*Just a 'playable' mechanic for a desirable feature without breaking 'balance'.

Note: Counting task checks (successful or no - failure is often a great teacher) gets too complicated (i.e. results of trying super easy tasks over and over, etc.)
 
Interesting topic.

Plus, like I think I said earlier in this thread, I set the max skill rank at 4. To go above that you need attribute bonus' or bonus' from Psi or other tech enhancements.
New to Traveller, I thought of a qualitative scale to gauge the level of the character in a skill. I personnaly set the maxskill rank at 5, by indicating it on my custom character sheet :

nothing- incompétent (incompetent)
0- novice (beginner)
1- amateur (unprofessional)
2- professionnel (professional)
3- spécialiste (expert ?)
4- expert (skilled ?)
5- maître (master)

I'm not sure the meaning of words is the same as in French for "spécialiste/expert" & "expert/skilled". Few people reach the sixth rank in my (future) universe. In our world, these would be genius, like Einstein or Hawkings.
8)
 
I'm using the weeks training equalling current level plus wanted level for the skill increases, mainly as a way to quickly boost the skills my players want without losing interest in the game.

Of course I justify this training as being pretty heavy stuff done during the down times in Jump Space as seeing level 1 is 4 years of experience and it'll take one week of heavy training to get from lv 0 to lv 1, training is extensive and for one skill only and if there arent the things on-ship to train it, it cant be boosted without other help.
 
zero said:
I'm using the weeks training equalling current level plus wanted level for the skill increases, mainly as a way to quickly boost the skills my players want without losing interest in the game.

The main problem with this approach is that it encourages players to either start adventuring at 18, or take one term to get a few basic training skills and some money first, but then head out at 22. After all, in 4 years of your system, you can learn quite a few skills in every other week of jump-time (100-ish weeks to buy levels with every 4 years).
 
^ Correct, I am only using that as a placeholder before I see how far this campaign will go. If it reaches 4 years game time, when I start a new game, I'll try one of these other systems.
 
zero said:
^ Correct, I am only using that as a placeholder before I see how far this campaign will go. If it reaches 4 years game time, when I start a new game, I'll try one of these other systems.
So, this campaign is your 'basic training'? *playful wink*
 
^ Lol, yes thats exactly it. I'll start to put some pressure on the next session (our 2nd) when the passenger of our ship becomes host to an alien parasite, finding a person in charge of a package to be delivered with an alien larval parasite stuck to their face and theyre ko'd should be a nice way to advance the drama :lol:
 
Question brought to the forefront of my mind by zero's "alien parasite" comment.

By the time we hit year 1105 of the Third Imperium (so what, like year 5,000+ in old Earth reckoning?) How do you define a parasite as "alien"?

I mean we travel the stars, humanity is spread across what a thousand worlds so how do we define a parasite as "alien"? Is it because we don't know what it is? Because it didn't come from our home world(s)?

*scratches his head*
 
I'd say for my example a bit of both.
Some eggs found on a small moon outside of comms and trade route lines that no-one knows what they'll hatch into and some Agents (who say theyre Solomon agents, but who knows :wink: ) want a sample of the organism in some shape or form to see what it is (and if they can be of any use).
 
GamerDude said:
Looks like a fairly interesting yet reasonable system.

Still, I like this one. Good enough (IMO) to have been a S&P article.
Sorry for the thread necromance, was out of town for the weekend.

Thanks, GamerDude, for the kind words! My system is working but it needs to be refined a bit.


BP said:
Also, given typical -3 for no skill level, could allow (-2 ) and (-1) during learning.
This is an interesting idea. Makes sense and gives the players a little reward on the way to Level-0.
BP, you make a good point about tracking tons of relatively simple tasks; I'm going to be fiddling with the mechanic a bit... what I posted is from my notes from early 2010! ;)

As far as character improvement in Traveller, I'm trying to keep things in the six-month-to-one-year neighborhood. Granted, a term is four years, but most characters have a chance to gain more than a single skill/stat increase in a given term with Events, Commissions, and Promotions.
 
I think the max amount of skills in a term would be around 4:

One for the base skill roll
One for an Event
One in a rank for a Promotion
One for gaining a rank promotion.

Thats not considering basic training, which boosts this variable number up. Generally though the maximum in that regard would be 5-6 tops in a term.
 
IMHO:

RE: Level 1+
- seems to represent more than 1 year of experience, just multiple at a time in a term (re: see rulebook 'doctor' example).

RE: benefiting from 'using' skills
- referee call, rather than a defined mechanic. If the players know they can 'advance' by playing the game, then I think that encourages the right approach. Rather than doing out of character stuff just to gain 'XP', er.. skill levels by 'playing' the rules. ;)

Haven't refereed skills/stat advancement in Traveller - it avoids the counter-roleplay concept of leveling up... otherwise NPCs would need to address an imbalance (they generally lack the 'monster' progression - i.e. goblins to orcs to dragons, etc. ;) ). Though, Mongoose, as opposed to Classic, has specialties and a general level 0 mechanic that makes me a bit more inclined to Level 0 skill advancements...

The -3 DM unskilled DM is pretty harsh, but there are things creative players can do to better their odds. Besides having certain Tech, they can also use the Timing rules.

I encourage attempting tasks, regardless of lacking skills, when that would be in character. Such as giving a DM for player inventiveness (i.e. good roleplaying). Another is better supporting partial successes (i.e. expanding upon the 'marginal success' range so that something might 'mostly' or 'sorta' work as intended).

Without failure - success would be pretty meaningless in the game, but there are various degrees of failure. Ultimately it should result in challenges that inspire creativity and good roleplaying (or at least fun roleplaying!).
 
Just because someone takes you out to a shooting range, shows you how to load, unload, chamber a round and shoot well enough to hit the big paper target, that doesn't make you competent. It makes you 'familiar'. I wouldn't trust you to take a gun out of the case or do more than hit someone standing over you if they paused before attacking you (letting you get off a shot).

I'd agree with your definition of competent in game terms. Note that army and navy 'basic training' - i.e. boot camp, basic drill and initial specialization school - nets you a handful of level zero skills.

I.E. Freshly qualified army rifleman/trooper/marine/guardsman/whatever is going to be looking after his standard issue gear with skill level 0 and regular oversight by someone with skill 1 or 2.
 
So, it could be said that it takes a little under a year (so a few months) to develop a skill to level 0 (could someone do the actual math for the amount of months needed if you gain 6 lvl 0 skills in four years?).

A minimum of a year would increase a skill by one level. However we all know a single level represents 4 years of experience generally.

A simple system that uses this would be keeping in with development in char gen. Sure it wouldnt be good for a short game (probably why advancement was left out of the Core in the first place), but if someone has a game that follows the 42 years of paying a ship's mortgage and having the chars grow into old people, it'd be a pretty good system.
 
Actually - all char gen implies is:
  • Within 4 years to develop 6 Level 0 skills - though referred to as 'basic training' (10 weeks in U.S. Army)

    A minimum of 1 term to gain any skill level (1 or 4 or whatever) - i.e. 4 years of experience.
My own 'Level 0 weeks = 2d6+10 - (Int DM + Edu DM)', etc. posted above reflects times based more on 'advanced' basic training for a specialty (can take up to a year in the real world, though most are much less, sometimes as little as 6 weeks). I also thought it more 'believable' to allow for stat variances.

Core does have 'Learning New Skills' (pg 59). Regardless of any other opinions about learning 'limits', it is a rather spectacular example of a flawed game mechanic (emphasis mine):
Core pg 59 said:
... more skills a character possesses, the longer it takes him to learn a new skill. A character’s Skill Total is calculated by summing
the levels of each skill (level zero skills count as zero). ... To increase a skill, a character must train for a number of weeks
equal to his current Skill Total plus the desired level of the skill. ...
So, if you want the most skill bang for your character buck - remember level 0 gives basically +3 where other levels only give +1 - don't go through multiple terms and risk aging - just avoid any skills at all and get all the level 0 skills you want in a matter of next to no time... then spend a few more months advancing a couple of them to outrageously high levels.

To boot, your character won't have to have gray hair to be the most famous gunman, engineer, doctor in known space... ;)
 
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