Improving physical stats after char gen

[Duroon]

How would one go about improving a characters STR/DEX/END after character generation without resorting to implants from the equipment section? I would like to see some rules for the characters increasing their stats through an exercise regime.

 

[far-trader]

How would one go about improving a characters STR/DEX/END after character generation without resorting to implants from the equipment section? I would like to see some rules for the characters increasing their stats through an exercise regime.

Well, CT allowed an exercise program, 4 years of dedicated free time (no more than a 3 month interruption) allowed a +1 to Str, Dex, and End for the duration of the program IF you made a dedication throw of 8+ with DM +2 if Int 8- or +4 if Int 5- and limited of course to no more than a 15 in any stat.

I added:

The increase(s) became permanent after 4 years (subject to loss through other reasons of course) and another round of improvement could be started without a need for a dedication throw.

The 3 points of improvement could be assigned as desired. i.e. +1 to Str and +2 to Dex instead of +1 to each, or even +3 to any one instead.

Failing the dedication throw meant you stuck to it for 1d6 months (during which time you had the benefits) and then couldn't try again for 1d6 months (during which time of course you didn't have the benefits).

 

[Duroon]

4 years is a bit of a long time for getting a stat increase of 1. CT also made you study for 4 years to get a skill increase of 1. MGT allows you to increase a skill in a much shorter time, one of the PC's in my upcoming campaign can learn a new skill in 9 weeks. Of course he missed nearly every survival roll he had in a 6 term character. The other 6 term character would take 21 weeks to learn a new skill.

 

[Xoph]

You could just have the players improve their Athletics on the related Characteristic. That is what I'm doing.

 

[AKAmra]

To keep it simple I'd consider something like: Current Stat +1 x 3 weeks training time for a 1 point increase. This keeps it close to the skill training except substituting 3 weeks instead of 1.

I'd also likely put a max increase of say, 3 points to any stat (absolute max of 15 in any stat).

 

[Duroon]

I was thinking along the lines of adding your STR, DEX, and END and then add 1. That will equal the number of weeks you need to exercise in order to increase a stat by 1. For STR a regime of weight training will be needed, DEX would be gymnastics, and Endurance would be jogging or cycling. This would be a constant requirement that would need to be uninterrupted, but only for a couple of hours a day. However to get past a score of eight the exercise requirement would double.

 

[far-trader]

4 years is a bit of a long time for getting a stat increase of 1. CT also made you study for 4 years to get a skill increase of 1.

Yes, it was predicated on the average one skill/stat bonus per term of prior history in Book 1. With the increases in Book 4, 5 and 6 I'd consider halving the time in CT if those are the methods used.

However that may have little to do with MGT, and you seem to be making some progress in working it out for that.

I would only add that...

MGT allows you to increase a skill in a much shorter time, one of the PC's in my upcoming campaign can learn a new skill in 9 weeks. Of course he missed nearly every survival roll he had in a 6 term character. The other 6 term character would take 21 weeks to learn a new skill.

...translating that to 4 year terms would have PC 1 earning some 23 skills in that time, and PC 2 would have only some 10 skills in the same time. Just for comparisons sake

In other words it looks to me like MGT post career skill advancement is very generous to very very generous.

 

[Court Jester]

I am using a very simple xp system. New skills cost 4x the new level the skill will go up to and stats cost 5x the new level the stat will go to. I am also very stingy with the xp in my game so advancement is pretty much teh same rate as in normal Traveller.

 

[Beastttt]

page 89 has Physical Characteristic Augmentation(cybernetics)for str,dex and end
it starts at
TL 11 for a +1 at 500,000 cr
TL 12 for a + 2 at 1,000,000cr
TL 15 for a +3 at 5,000,000 cr
each characteristic must be purchased seperatly

and you can also upgrade your brain as well

 

[Duroon]

page 89 has Physical Characteristic Augmentation(cybernetics)for str,dex and end
it starts at
TL 11 for a +1 at 500,000 cr
TL 12 for a + 2 at 1,000,000cr
TL 15 for a +3 at 5,000,000 cr
each characteristic must be purchased seperatly

and you can also upgrade your brain as well

Yes, but I stated specifically that I was looking for a way to increase stats without buying augmentations.

It looks like my gaming group might be settling on the following system of exercise. Training regimes are considered to be a couple of hours per day.

Stats that are below 8 can be increased by exercise at the rate of 3*(current score)+1 = weeks of training.

To get a score of 9-11 the formula becomes 4*(current score)+1 = weeks of training.

Scores from 12-14 would be 5*(current score) +1 = weeks of training.

And to get a 15 (max score without resorting to augmentations) would be (6*14)+1 = 85 weeks of training.

I think this ramps up the difficulty rather nicely as a stat increases. An example from my groups character generation.

We had one player end up with a STR of 2. In order to increase his stat from the starting score of 2 up to a 6 where he would no longer have a -DM would take him ((2*3)+1)+((3*3)+1)+((4*3)+1)+((5*3)+1) = 39 weeks.

To get from 6 to 9 where he would finally get a +1 DM from strength would take another ((6*3)+1)+((7*3)+1)+((8*4)+1) = 74 weeks.

In total to get from a score of 2 (-2DM) to a score of 9 (+1DM) would take 113 weeks. A long process but much cheaper than augmentations.

 

[far-trader]

Looking at the above I'm struck by the idea of a 2 improving to a 9 in just over 2 years of part time training. It just seems wrong. And not long at all. Unless you're bulking up (strength) by using steroids. The body just doesn't build muscle/strength (or coordination/dexterity or stamina/endurance) that fast.

I'd suggest at least doubling that if you're talking all natural improvement and a full time training regime. Double it again for a part time regime (your couple hours a day). Keep the method you have for chemically aided (with the extra costs, financial and health, that come with it) full time regime, and double it for chemically aided part time regime.

Allow a certain TL and Medical skill to offset the worst of the problems with chemical training aids, at increased costs of course. And still a little cheaper than augmentations.

 

[far-trader]

Of course you have to balance all that with Player greed/need as well to keep them into the game. No easy trick that.

 

[CosmicGamer]

delete

 

[Duroon]

I'm not sure exactly what you are up to with increasing physical stats.

Simply trying to give someone that had bad luck rolling an option to better their character.

Second, is there any place in the MG Core Rulebook that talks about increasing stats? If so, please specify where.

Only in the equipment section where it gives tables for augmentations. That's why I started this discussion, I couldn't find any other way to increase physical stats.

Your points are valid, but I am not looking to overly complicate the issue. I want a simple rule for increasing physical stats. The athletics skills idea is a good one but if you keep with the current Mongoose Traveller mechanic of adding all skill ranks together in order to figure out how long to increase an athletics skill rank it seems to me your adding together two different types of things, physical and mental skills. I don't feel that someones mental skills should have a direct effect on how long it takes to improve a physical skill.

 

[far-trader]

You could also take a cue from the augmentation rules and rule that the maximum lifetime increase of any physical stat is limited to +3 (subject to the maximum of 15). That suits the reality of much of what Cosmic Gamer noted (which I largely agree with) without making it overly complicated. But it should still take a considerable time investment.

 

[CosmicGamer]

delete

 

[Duroon]

Person A has 15 skills and is learning Computers 1 and Player B has 5 skills and is learning Computers 1. Why would it take player A longer than player B?

Perhaps the reason is because there is an unwritten but implied amount of free time work done to maintain skills. Reading trade journals and what not. Since most people would not want to role play this for each and every skill it is not specified but is built in to the skill learning time. You have less free time to learn new things mental or physical.

The time involved is explained in the main rulebook page 59. It is explicitly written into the book.

The more skills a character possesses, the longer it takes him to learn a new skill. A character's Skill Total is calculated by summing the levels of each skill. A character with Mechanic 1 and Gun Combat (slug pistols) 2 would have a Skill Total of 3.

To increase a skill, a character must train for a number of weeks equal to his current Skill Total plus the desired level of the skill. So to advance from Pilot 2 to Pilot 3 with a current Skill Total of 3 would take (three, plus three) six weeks.

In your example, according to the rules on page 59 of the core rulebook, it would take player A 16 weeks to train Computer 1. It would take Player B 6 weeks.

 

[CosmicGamer]

delete

 

[Duroon]

You have indeed succeeded in muddling the issue further, congratulations. I am merely trying to create a mechanic for increasing physical stats without resorting to purchasing augmentations. I don't need a why or well your charcters should just buy the augments. My campaign is going to be in the OTU and as such it is stated in the core rulebook on page 89.

AUGMENTS
While technology is capable of significantly altering and improving
the human form, obvious cybernetic, genetic or surgical alteration
of the human form is frowned upon in the Imperium.

This to me means that the majority of Imperial citizens would prefer to increase their physical prowess by ordinary means...exercise. I merely want to come up with a mechanic for this that is as simple to implement as Mongoose's skill advancement rule. But thanks for derailing the topic.

 

[AKAmra]

There have been some good suggestions here, I don't think it should be necessary to defend your position, if you (as GM) want natural stat increases to be possible then that's the way it is.

I think allowing a method for natural stat increases is a no-brainer, it a simple fact people can improve their str, dex, etc.

I think that Far Traders suggestion to use the Augments limit of +3 (max 15) has merit, since going from a 2 Str to 15 seems to be a bit much, and you also open up the increasing stat bonus vs. skill DM can of worms, but the final call is yours.