Improving physical stats after char gen

[Duroon]

Currently my group is voting for which of the following two rules they would like to use. Neither is perfect of course, but one is simpler than the other I think.

1. Stats may be increased through exercise at the rate of (3*(current score))+1 = weeks to exercise. A max score of 8 can be achieved through exercise and there will be no maintenance regime to follow as an adventuring lifestyle is sufficient to maintain average physical stats.

2. Same as above except scores greater than 8 can be achieved through exercise. Any score up to 8 can be achieved using the above formula. For a score of 9-11 the formula becomes (4*(current score))+1 = weeks to train. A score in the range of 12-14 uses the formula (5*(current score))+1 = weeks to train. and a score of 15 (max achievable through exercise) uses the formula of (6*(current score of 14))+1 = 85 weeks of exercise to gain a 15 from a 14.
Characters must follow a maintenance course of exercise for scores above an 8 of no less than 1 hour exercise per day. Failure to follow the exercise course for more than a month causes the loss of 1 stat point.

As I said, neither is perfect. It does give players who have poor rolls a way to improve their physical stats without resorting to implants though.

 

[far-trader]

That seems like a pretty dang good ruling Duroon

(Wait? A score of 8 is average?)

 

[Duroon]

Scores of 6-8 give no positive or negative DM, I would say that's average for an adventurer.

 

[far-trader]

Scores of 6-8 give no positive or negative DM, I would say that's average for an adventurer.

Ah, I see. I thought maybe MGT had some new fangled roll 2D+1 for stats or something. Average is still 7 it's just you aren't penalized or rewarded for being a little high or low of it.

 

[AKAmra]

Looks good to me. Some players really have a problem with below average stats, this will let them fix it w/o augments. Everybody having fun is the most important element.

 

[GhostWolf69]

Hmmm... I must be stupid I guess, but I never reflected on the lack of advancements in Skills and Stats before. Then again this has always been the case in the Traveller versions I can remember and is one of the reasons I love it. It brings focus away from character tweaking and more into the story itself.

Anywhoo... Consider this simple principle to allow characters to advance, if you don't want boring endless months of training or bookkeeping how many weeks in Jump-space you practiced what skill:

1. Every time a player rolls 6-6 on a Check. (Skill or Characteristic) He/she has a chance to improve that Skill or Characteristic immediately.

2. If this was a skill check roll one die (unmodified) if the result is higher than the current skill rank you immediately gain +1 Rank.

3. If this was a straight up Characteristic Check roll 2d6. If the total is higher than your current Characteristic you immediately gain +1 in that Characteristic.

So every 1/36 checks of a particular Trait you have a chance to increase. If you are really good already it won't happen that often. Skills can get as high as 6 this way (6-6 on the check then 6 again to increase... that's 1/216). Characteristics go up to 15 (human maximum) in Traveller and I strongly suggest to keep 2d6 the limit so that you can never increase a Basic Characteristic above 12 with this method. (Rolling 6-6 and then 6-6 again to Increase... that's 1/1296...)

Be aware though, I have no idea what this will do to your game balance, but it seems to be alright if you ask me. Traveller was never that much about balance and fairness anyway. Maybe that is why I never missed this part? It's not like DnD where an adventure is designed to work only at specific levels or anything like that.

Anyway... just an idea, use it or not.

/wolf

 

[Duroon]

That's an interesting take on it GhostWolf and keeps the random feel of Traveller char gen as well. It's a bit complicated for me, but I can see that working for some people.

Most of my players that are concerned with their stats aren't long time Traveller players. I have one player who is a long time Traveller player and he had no problems with the new character gen system at all. In fact he was the only member of the group who I didn't have to help along the way of creating a character. The player that wound up with a 2 in STR went through 11 terms of character gen and never once tried to roll on the personal development table as far as I know. He had pretty specific goals as to his skills and mustering out benefits though and I think he managed to get them. I gave my players the option of rerolling their stats if they wound up with more negative DM's than positive. He wound up dead even, which I let another player reroll from as well, but he chose to work with the stats he had. He deliberately placed the 2 in STR as that stat had no bearing on his enlistment/survival/advancement rolls for the careers he wanted. It wasn't until he was all done and we were discussing carrying capacity that he realized he wouldn't be able to put on a Vacc suit unassisted, or be able to walk in it in normal gravity.

To be honest though I have not played any other RPG that didn't have some sort of mechanic for improving your stats over time. I think having a way to do this makes sense in the long run.

 

[far-trader]

Hmmm... I must be stupid I guess...

Hardly. I'd say you nailed it.

Which does raise a point (again? though it's just really hitting me).

Is the player who wanted the stats boosted "playing" the ref in this case?

I mean did they start with low stats and went many terms never rolling for stat benefits and concentrating on skills? And now they are lamenting the sorry physical stats?

Or maybe they went many terms and aging penalties reduced the stats below where they thought they have to be to play?

Or (as I think was mentioned) why didn't they tweak the stats at the outset in char gen? Did they put the good scores in the other areas for advancement reasons?

I'm not saying that's the case here, but I know it happens.

For that reason I kind of like GhostWolf's approach. It makes the player play the character and if they are lucky they will improve. Both as a player and a character.

 

[Xoph]

I don't think you should add a whole system for a player that didn't try to fix a 2 on his character sheet through 11 terms. After 11 terms the character is very old (62!) and unless he is on anagathics, he is likely to fly around on a grav floater all the time anyways. I think having a marginally handicaped old guy would be either super fun or super lame, but to make it super fun youl'd have to play him as an old guy. Maybe as another players grandfather.
Did he get a 2 due to aging? If the player doesn't want to be old and weak you could just finish the character after the 5th term.
I personally Limit players to 6 or 7 terms anyways and my players realised the age issue and avoided getting super old.

 

[Duroon]

The player took anagatheic's starting at age 30. He kept taking them the entire rest of his char gen. I am not really adding this house rule just to appease him. I honestly don't see why a character couldn't use exercise to increase a physical stat. He started with a 2 in STR and ended up there, mainly because he didn't realize how that would effect his character during game play.

 

[Xoph]

the Athletics skill is all about working out. If encumburence is the issue use the Athletics skill bonus to calculate encumbrance... which makes sense to me. It is already taken into account for lifting stuff why not lifting stuff all the time? If melee combat is the issue he can just raise his melee skill.

 

[Myrm]

the Athletics skill is all about working out. If encumburence is the issue use the Athletics skill bonus to calculate encumbrance... which makes sense to me. It is already taken into account for lifting stuff why not lifting stuff all the time? If melee combat is the issue he can just raise his melee skill.

Athletics Strength or Athletics Endurance????

 

[Xoph]

I am at work and don't have a copy of the book in from of me, but it seems that it would be situational like most Traveller skills.
It is simple to figure it out: anything that call for an Endurance check or requirementwould allow Athletics: Endurance bonus anything that required a Strength check or requirement would allow Athletics: Strength Bonus.
IMHO From what I remember (no book in front of me) the rules could probably be read this way already.

 

[GhostWolf69]

The player took anagatheic's starting at age 30. He kept taking them the entire rest of his char gen. I am not really adding this house rule just to appease him. I honestly don't see why a character couldn't use exercise to increase a physical stat. He started with a 2 in STR and ended up there, mainly because he didn't realize how that would effect his character during game play.

So the PC started out Physically handicapped (more or less) had a long carrer despite this, is now 60 years old, addicted to drugs... and whining about not being able to "workout" !?

Honestly... feels like he's trying to wriggle his way out of a poor handicap that he put upon himself in the belief that it was the "powergaming" thing to do.

If he is really displeased with the way the PC turned out, I'd let him roll a new one. I would never start fiddeling with rules to let PC drop their character flaws. But I would never force a player to play a PC he doesn't want to play either. Where's the fun in that?

/wolf

 

[Duroon]

The player took anagatheic's starting at age 30. He kept taking them the entire rest of his char gen. I am not really adding this house rule just to appease him. I honestly don't see why a character couldn't use exercise to increase a physical stat. He started with a 2 in STR and ended up there, mainly because he didn't realize how that would effect his character during game play.

So the PC started out Physically handicapped (more or less) had a long carrer despite this, is now 60 years old, addicted to drugs... and whining about not being able to "workout" !?

Honestly... feels like he's trying to wriggle his way out of a poor handicap that he put upon himself in the belief that it was the "powergaming" thing to do.

If he is really displeased with the way the PC turned out, I'd let him roll a new one. I would never start fiddeling with rules to let PC drop their character flaws. But I would never force a player to play a PC he doesn't want to play either. Where's the fun in that?

/wolf

The player isn't complaining about it. I am dissatisfied with the lack of a mechanic to improve stats. The player isn't trying to wriggle out of anything. I did give him the option of rolling a new character (he did want the option to just reroll that one stat, but I told him a whole new character or work with the stats as is). He isn't being forced to keep the character he rolled up in any way. I just thought that a way to improve stats without having to use augmentations or add all of the skills up and add a skill in Athletics (Strength) taking a year or more to improve a physical stat based on how many intellectual skills he already has. And as I said, every RPG I have ever played has a mechanic for improving your physical stats, why not Traveller?

 

[Xoph]

IMHO I don't think you should add a mechanic to improve a PCs physical stats.
The player will have a fun time playing Ancient super smart and educated Dr. Bob the weakling because he will always be floating in and saving the day on anything mental. Then he'll take a hit when Jane the space marine doesn't manage to block a bullet and he'll go down. He’ll roll up a new character all before his workout program allows him to raise his strength significantly. then you will be stuck with a new mechanic Jane the space marine will use to make her character super strong.

 

[far-trader]

...every RPG I have ever played has a mechanic for improving your physical stats, why not Traveller?

It does, in career generation

Not saying don't use your idea, it's a good one applied within reason. In this case I'm not sure it is. After a certain age it's very very hard to improve on your physical stats in real life. Here's a character that cruised through a long life on a (practically disabled) low strength. And now all of a sudden in a few weeks he's going to raise it, and continue to raise it (potentially) to 15? That's frankly unbelievable.

Revisit my suggestion to cap any raise to 3 points in a lifetime, and apply the (effective) age modifiers as reductions to that cap. So if aging is the same as in CT the 11th term bracket would mean a potential -8 for a maximum natural adjustment limit top of 7 ( 15 - 8 ) instead of 15. In other words it's too late for a 62 year old to think about competing at Olympic levels, but not too late to be a good solid healthy average.

Also note I said effective age. In this case the character has been doing anagathics so the potential is higher.

 

[Duroon]

So the consensus is that Traveller should forget realism as far as physical improvement of a character is concerned. And yet the forum is filled with people crying about not enough realism where equipment and combat is concerned? I find that an interesting double standard. As far as realism is concerned a person should be able to improve themselves physically through exercise.

The player will have a fun time playing Ancient super smart and educated Dr. Bob the weakling because he will always be floating in and saving the day on anything mental.

I have said this enough times now. The player with the low score did not prompt me to try this. He never asked for a way to improve his score.

I feel that it is unrealistic for there not to be a way to improve a physical stat through exercise.

 

[far-trader]

Also be prepared for your "tanks" to demand fair and equal treatment in raising their intelligence, education, and social standing just as quick and easy. If the game allows raising one stat it should apply to all equally. It's only fair right?

 

[Xoph]

I feel that it is unrealistic for there not to be a way to improve a physical stat through exercise.

That is what the Athletics skill repersents, a realistic way to improve your raw physical ablities.

Answer me this why would a PC ever upgrade a skill when they could take an characteristic instead? A zero level skill and a higher characteristic is always better.