I'm pretty worried now

[Adept]

I'm one of your dream customers, or at least I thought I was. I'm a Glorantha fan that tries to pick up practically everything published about the setting. If for nothing else, then to support the writers, and because it's often tricky hunting for the books when you eventually need them (possibly years later).

I have no interest in the new Rune Quest system, but I've been meaning to pick up all the specifically Glorantha themed books. I was rather happy with Glorantha, the Second Age, and especially the Ralios .pdf. So far so good.

The attitude displayed by Ian Belcher, the Publications Manager, on these forums has me really worried though. The work of the writers seems to get cut by some vague reasons by a person that isn't personally familiar with the setting. In addition, some bizarre art choises seem to be retained on principle. The client is wrong and the authority of the publisher may not be challenged.

As I said, I'm worried. Glorantha has an enthusiastic and intelligent following. We are friendly people, and generally try to support our hobby. Not showing respect to the world we care about, or us as customers is a big mistake, I feel.

I hope I'm wrong, and the work of your writers isn't being sabotaged by the management. As it stands, I'm going to get more cautious and cancel my reservation for Cults of Glorantha at my local RPG retailer. I'm going to have to scan that book a bit before I make up my mind.

Humakt without sever spirit. Because of what? Game balance conciderations by somebody who doesn't know about Glorantha? Please...

 

[Rurik]

I think your concerns are shared by many. After Ralios and GtSA my hopes were at a high, after the Cults debacle a low.

Blackyinkin (aka Simon Bray of the Unspoken Word - what is it with the name Simon and Gloranthaphiles anyway?) made this post which sounds heartening. Time will tell if they mean it.

I don't really care if Mongoose ever comes out and says "we effed up" as long as they fix the problem in future books. And issue errata. Maybe it is a good thing they split Cults into 2 books - hopefully the second half won't be borked.

Many have posted Cults 1 is overall very good aside from the editorial issues that have been gone over on this board. We who have older Gloranthan material are at an advantage really, we have access to what spells what gods should have and how they should work.

I will pick up the CoG and MoG I ordered and evaluate the line from there.

 

[weasel_fierce]

Better editing couldnt hurt at all, but honestly, if people bitched as much as they have, about something so trivial as how trolls look, I'd be cranky too.

Im confident that they will get better as time goes by.

 

[iamtim]

Better editing couldnt hurt at all, but honestly, if people bitched as much as they have, about something so trivial as how trolls look, I'd be cranky too.

I could not agree more.

Another thing to consider: maybe, just maybe, Mongoose isn't targeting existing Glorantha fans. Maybe they're targetting a new audience, and maybe they (Mongoose and/or the new audience) like it better that way.

To me, it doesn't matter. Humakt can have Sever Spirit or not. No skin off my nose.

*shrug*

 

[canology]

To me, it doesn't matter. Humakt can have Sever Spirit or not. No skin off my nose.

*shrug*

BLASPHEMER!!!!!!!!!!

~_^

 

[Rurik]

Sheesh.

It is like you guys are trying to start the flames on the troll thing burning again.

But you are just making one of the old school troll proponents points - that people new to the game and Glorantha don't care what trolls look like.

People who have loved trolls since Trollpak do. So why alienate them by changing trolls, if it doesn't matter to the new audience.

Gloranthan Trolls are one of the most detailed and beloved RPG races out there. The reaction of people to the 'change' is testament to that.

I put 'change' in quotes because they haven't actually changed them, many of the troll pictures in MRQ books are 'right' by classic standards. The art is inconsistent, some have pig snouts, some have 'classic' snouts.

That and I really think the pig snout thing has become more than just about the snouts, it has come to represent a perceived uncaring attitude by Mongoose towards existing Gloranthan canon. That is a big part of why Ian Belchers comments on these boards set so many people off.

And they did target existing customers. They Licensed an existing system and Glorantha specifically because they had a following, and then they marketed to that following. They hired existing Gloranthan writers to do the first releases. They knew many crusty old Gloranthaphiles/RQ'ers would be unhappy - hell RQ3 was largely blasted when it first came out and it was written by the original authors - but they wanted some to come along. And many of have. And they will buy the books and spread the gospel if they stick with the game.

 

[Rurik]

To me, it doesn't matter. Humakt can have Sever Spirit or not. No skin off my nose.

*shrug*

BLASPHEMER!!!!!!!!!!

~_^

Here we have another example of new guys could care less, old crusties hate the change.

I have said before, if eliminating Sever Spirit was a conscious decision carefully thought out, that is one thing. Too lethal for what Mongoose is looking for, fine (though it is the definitive Humakt spell). But there are many examples where they just plain screwed up. No healing spells for the healing goddess? Fang of Wachaza giving a 1d6 bonus but is a 5 point Divine spell (it originally had an autokill chance), Crush becoming an equivalent of the Rune spell Bludgeon (Divine magic should be point for point about twice as powerful as Rune magic, even says so in the Companion).

The above examples are just plain bad editing. And when people complain the official response is: "Had to, suck it up" when it is plain to see the truth is that the editing is a hack job, and the modified spells and cults are just plain broken, then paying customers have a right to complain.

 

[weasel_fierce]

Isnt the Gloranthan stuff approved by Stafford ? Or how does it all work ?

 

[Rurik]

Isnt the Gloranthan stuff approved by Stafford ? Or how does it all work ?

I think so, but he may well get the manuscript before final editing and layout. I know Jeff Kyer (aka Voriof), the author of Cults 1&2, has written Gloranthan material for HeroQuest/Issaries, so probably has a working relationship with Greg.

The main complaints with Cults are not with Jeff's material, but with the final changes made to the manuscript.

 

[weasel_fierce]

Ahh, I see

 

[iamtim]

Here we have another example of new guys could care less, old crusties hate the change.

You're assuming two things: 1) that I am a "new guy", and 2) that Canology was being serious with me instead of sitting at my kitchen table telling me he posted that in jest.

Although, I guess that if you consider someone who still has his copy of RQ3 sitting on his game shelf from when it was bought new a "new guy", I guess I am a "new guy".

 

[canology]

Although I must admit that Humakt without Sever Spirit seems rather odd...
:?

 

[Voriof]

Isnt the Gloranthan stuff approved by Stafford ? Or how does it all work ?

I think so, but he may well get the manuscript before final editing and layout. I know Jeff Kyer (aka Voriof), the author of Cults 1&2, has written Gloranthan material for HeroQuest/Issaries, so probably has a working relationship with Greg.

Both Aaron and I communicate with the Greggly One on a fairly regular basis. I'm involved with a few other, non-Mongoose, projects that involve his barroque wisdom. I am also starting to suspect that Aaron also has a fairly decent shelf of Gloranthan material for research & reference.

Jeff

 

[Adept]

Isnt the Gloranthan stuff approved by Stafford ? Or how does it all work ?

I think so, but he may well get the manuscript before final editing and layout. I know Jeff Kyer (aka Voriof), the author of Cults 1&2, has written Gloranthan material for HeroQuest/Issaries, so probably has a working relationship with Greg.

Also Greg is taking a pretty lenient view about the second age line. He posted someting like "Some things I liked a lot, some things I didn't..."

It sounded like he's decided to let Mongoose have pretty free hand with it. Issaries has far closer supervision.

 

[Adept]

Although I must admit that Humakt without Sever Spirit seems rather odd...
:?

My gaming group gave really odd looks (and some laughter) when hearing that Sever Spirit had been cut, apparently for game balance reasons.

So much for the God of Death.

 

[Halfbat]

Here we have another example of new guys could care less, old crusties hate the change.

Although, I guess that if you consider someone who still has his copy of RQ3 sitting on his game shelf from when it was bought new a "new guy", I guess I am a "new guy".

It's worth remembering that some of us who are happy with the changes certainly _aren't_ "new guys" but have been around for a _long_ time in RQ. canonology may have been joking to make a point but I have to confess to being with iamtim on this: "Humakt without Sever Spirit? ::shrug:: ". It may be too over-powerful for how the 'goose want to take things - fine. Maybe it was acquired by Humakt at the end of the 2nd age? Maybe the trolls "really" [:wink:] do look like the Mongoose depicts them. I'm quite happy with their interpretation, just as I am _really_ relieved at their interpretation of ducks.

And I'm overjoyed they're OGL.

 

[Exubae]

Humakt also seems to have lost 'Oath'

Wachaza seems to be lacking 'Drown', may be for the same reason as Humakt's Sever Spirit.

Unless I missed read it, of course.

 

[simonh]

I can see Sever Spirit, as the RQ3 Divine Magic spell, being overpowered and that's fine. Sever Spirit is mentioned once or twice IIRC in some of the gloranthan sources as being a power of Humakt, but that doesn't mean it has to be a DM spell in MRQ, it could be a heroquesting power for example.

 

[OldMongooseFordy]

Here is the Sever Spirit spell as originally submitted:

Sever Spirit
Instant, Magnitude 3, Ranged, Resist, Reusable
Cult: Humakt, Zorak Zoran

This spell severs the bond between the target's body and soul. If the caster succeeds overcoming the target's Magic Points, the target dies. If unsuccessful, the target still takes 1D6 General Hit Point damage.

Note that this spell manifests slightly differently for each cult with access to it. The Humakti version is a sword, slicing the cord of life while the Zorak Zoran version smashes the soul from the body.

Feel free to include it in your games, although you might want to take into account the following:

The Resist quality has no Dodge/Persistence/Resilience element.
It has the Reusable quality, which means nothing in the current rules.
It states: 'If the caster succeeds overcoming the target's Magic Points', which means nothing in the current rules.
It also states: 'If unsuccessful, the target still takes 1D6 General Hit Point damage' which also means nothing in the current rules.
And finally, IT'S A MAGNITUDE 3 SPELL THAT CAUSES INSTANT DEATH FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!

Now, for the purposes of game balance it was indeed removed. Even if it had remained, all the elements mentioned above would have had to be changed. Would I then have been accused of heavy-handed editing by the old guard I wonder???

Richard Ford
Heavy-Handed Editor of Cults 1 & 2

 

[Iyan]

Then up the magnitude, make the resistance match MRQ-rules and make up some other kind of damage for the failed spell. Point that's being made here is the fact that the God of Death doesn't have the spell that marks him as just that, the God of Death. You guys have changed so much, why was this such an impossible spell to change towards the MRQ-rules? You think instant death is terrible at magnitude 3? Yes, well, it was in your power to make it for example a magnitude 6 spell. It doesn't have to be easily accessable. It just needs to exist.