If you could change the Vargr, how would you?

[Gee4orce]

I would like the idea that the Ancients uplifted apes to create Humans, and uplifted wolves to create Vargr. I know this isn't canon, but it kind of explains why the Vargr and nothing else. You could even push it and say the Aslan were uplifted from Earth felines - that would upset a few people no doubt.

There's probably a water world somewhere with Ancient uplifted cetaceans and octopi ;-)

Actually, I do like the suggestion that the Vargr were created to control humans. Like we've done ourselves on Earth, moving species to different continents can be disastrous - often the solution is to control alien pest species with a predator from it's natural environment. So perhaps the transplanted humans ran amok, and the Vargr were created to predate on the humans and control their numbers. They were made intelligent because it was the only way they could match the human ingenuity.

Perhaps Vargr were even present here on Earth, but on this world we managed to wipe them out - though we do still have racial memories of monsters in the woods - 'beast men' 'werewolves', 'bigfoot', etc !

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I think about Aslan coming from uplifted lions sometimes. But that would make Earth seem like Grand Central Station for the Ancients. I do like the idea of bi-pedal lifeforms evolving on their own, on their own worlds. DNA seems to prefer bi-pedal motion for more intelligent species. Like those neut races. They are reptile lizards that have evolved into two-legged reptile intelligent beings. That could have happened on Earth, if lizards brains got bigger. It may still happen for them, millions of years from now. Evolution doesn't stop once TV is invented.

I would like to think that stuff humans keep finding in the Traveller Universe isn't just old reruns from Earth that the Ancients collected. Might as well just adventure on Earth (Terra).

 

[Epicenter]

But that would make Earth seem like Grand Central Station for the Ancients...Might as well just adventure on Earth (Terra).

If you take this idea to a certain conclusion, it actually makes the Traveller universe make a lot more sense. If there's a lot of originally Earth lifeforms and descendants thereof, it makes sense that so many worlds are so easily settled by humans and that so many worlds have lifeforms familiar.

I've had this idea kicking around in my head, one that would require a lot of jigging around of the Ancients canon, is that the Droyne are actually a variety of sentient descended from the "saur" line (of which dinosaurs are the most familiar to most people) right here on Earth. They developed a lot of technology based on biology and most of them blew themselves up a war 450 million years ago or were hit by a comet or whatever. Regardless of what happened, they realized that Earth was no longer a suitable world for their kind or they realized they had to scatter their seed wide or face extinction if another such event occurred so they left Earth and scattered themselves around the stars in the equivalent of very slow sleeper ships. The survivors of these proto-Droyne on Earth did go extinct. Modern paleontology hasn't found evidence of this civilization because ... it's been 450 million years, they don't think like us, most of their technology was biologically based (and decomposed), and ... the Ancients came and cleaned up the most egregious examples (more on this later).

Their seeder "ships" (they wouldn't really be starships as we think of them, more like mostly dormant quasi-lifeforms that move around on solar sails, using asteroids for "food") took a long time, literally hundreds of thousands of years in the shortest case, but millions of years in many cases to reach other stars. They'd seed the planet with familiar lifeforms, including Droyne. The overwhelming majority (like 99%) of these missions failed. The Ancients are the only example that managed to survive and climb up the ladder to civilization once more and returned to Earth after the amazing genius that is Grandfather figured out where they came from originally. They returned, cleaned up the old homestead of the remains of the original civilization (so as not to stunt to development of future ones) and took a lot of samples of promising lifeforms upon their second visit.

However, the known universe would be full of ecologies set up by these seeder ships that would be sort of familiar (it's all earth-based DNA lifeforms) yet alien (millions of years of divergent evolution - like many worlds wouldn't have flowering plants, since those evolved only after the dinosaurs, but they might have all sorts of other interesting methods that never evolved on Earth).

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

But that would make Earth seem like Grand Central Station for the Ancients...Might as well just adventure on Earth (Terra).

If you take this idea to a certain conclusion, it actually makes the Traveller universe make a lot more sense.

Not a big fan of Earth being the center from which most lifeforms in the known space of Traveller come from. The ancients, with all their technology, kept coming back to Earth to spread other seeds around known space. Out of all the thousands of worlds, Earth is the one picked again and again.

But to be honest though, I think the ancients/droyne are the worst race in the Traveller universe. Reptile greys with wings.

 

[Gee4orce]

How about this for an alternative take on the Traveller universe:

Life is fairly common in the universe. Intelligent life is extraordinarily rare. So rare, in fact, that it has only ever evolved once in known space - the Droyne. All other intelligent life, all the major and minor races in known space, are results of Droyne experimentation and uplift.

The Droyne evolved here, on Earth, about 65 Million years ago, from arboreal dinosaurs. They evolved intelligence and developed their unique caste social system. They built a vast technological civilisation - and did untold damage to their environment. They wiped out many of the major megafauna (ie. dinosaurs) that existed at the time. They reached out into space and spread into the galaxy. They experimented, seeding worlds with life.

They fought - huge wars that crossed the galaxy, destroying entire worlds. In one attack a large asteroid was diverted to hit the earth, and wiped out most life that still existed there (the well known extinction event that killed of the dinosaurs, which were already in decline). The drone passed away - doing whatever it is that super advanced civilisations do when they've killed their home world. Hibernated, contemplated, transcended. All traces of the once great Droyne cities were wiped from the face of the Earth by plate tectonics and erosion.

In time life on earth recovered, and new species arose. The few drone that still existed couldn't resist tampering, and again the seeded the galaxy with new species uplifted from Earth - Vargr, K'kree, Aslan - even Hivers. But once again they fought (insert canon explanation of Grandfather, etc).

I've always liked the idea of 'the dinosaurs became intelligent, wiped out most of life on earth, and we're repeating it all over again', but it's hard to put that into a story that's about humans. This could do it.

 

[rust]

The Droyne evolved here, on Earth, about 65 Million years ago, from arboreal dinosaurs.

There would be a little problem with the number of limbs to
handwave away. Few biologists would consider six-limbed
droyne as plausible descendants of four-limbed dinosaurs.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

If only the Droyne evolved, then how did Humans show up? How did wolves show up to make Vargr from?

 

[Epicenter]

The Droyne evolved here, on Earth, about 65 Million years ago, from arboreal dinosaurs.

There would be a little problem with the number of limbs to
handwave away. Few biologists would consider six-limbed
droyne as plausible descendants of four-limbed dinosaurs.

Perhaps this was some Ancient conceit - they genetically engineered themselves to that form later. The ancient Droyne on earth didn't have six limbs, only four. But the Ancients realized it's pretty darn convenient to be able to manipulate tools while flying, instead of just flying or manipulating tools. Of course, that's a pretty huge change, involving some rewiring of the brain, probably significant changes to the under-the-skin physiology as well (new muscle groups, a more powerful heart and circulatory system to feed it, modified bone structure to anchor the new muscles, a superior respiratory system to deliver oxygen to this all, etc.). But they kept it within their own limits for changing the outward appearance of their species "too much" (by their standards - similar to when humans imagine flying humans, the humans have their arms and legs and add wings, not just make the arms into wings and the feet into hands, an easier adaptation). While the Ancients expanded, they found the other Droyne communities and "upgraded" them to the new standard. However, there might still be four-limbed Droyne communities in places in the universe as well or perhaps the Droyne "lower castes" are four-limbed and have a very different internal physiology, something that's baffled scientists for years...

 

[steelbrok]

I've toyed with the idea of the Droyne/Ancients visiting in historic/prehistoric times and that our image of the devil as winged and scaley comes from them

 

[F33D]

I would based them on Sheep Dog stock

 

[hdan]

I've toyed with the idea of the Droyne/Ancients visiting in historic/prehistoric times and that our image of the devil as winged and scaley comes from them

I'm pretty sure that was the idea.

Also, notice that the Vilani alphabet, language and culture bear some resemblance to those of ancient Sumer, sort of implying that the (popular in the 70's) "Chariots of the Gods" idea was possibly the result of a lost Vilani colony arriving on Earth in preliterate times.

 

[GypsyComet]

I think the ancients/droyne are the worst race in the Traveller universe. Reptile greys with wings.

Everyone is so tied up on physical appearances.

My primary problem with the Droyne is that they are just a little too inscrutable to be played readily by either players or the Ref. Not enough cues for RP.

As errant as they are, the most common cues for the Aslan make them easy to play.
*Everyone* has known a dog or two, so the Vargr foibles are easy to play.
The Zhodani and Solomani play into well known tropes.
Even the Hivers play into several easily grasped tropes, as do the K'kree.

Droyne are none of these things, at least so far. I hope their book for MGT helps us play them.

Back to the original topic, the Vargr are unique among the Major Races (aside from the Solomani) in at least one way that actually counters all the usual tropes: they are distinctly and casually multi-cultural. All of the other major races and all described minor races are mono-cultural, and in two cases (Aslan and K'kree) militantly so, going to some lengths to squash cultural drift.

Yes, sure, it's a trope of its own: "Every dog is different". but in the Traveller universe, they are the only race like that once you get beyond the old Terrans and their close relatives.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

*Everyone* has known a dog or two, so the Vargr foibles are easy to play.

That's the mistake many players fall into. Which leads to terrible role-playing of Vargr. It's hard enough to get players to role-play their human characters. Fortunately, the Mongoose Alien Module 2 book describes the Vargr race in a variety of cultures and governments and tech levels (there's even slavery on both sides mentioned by Vargr and human). And not as dogs that have replaced Earth children in some homes.

 

[GypsyComet]

The Vargr don't have all of a family dog's foibles, but just as Humans still have some signs of their simian ancestry (watch young gorillas or chimps at play, then look at a park playground...) the Vargr will often show signs of their canid ancestry. This can be as minor as being able to tell a Vargr is distracted by watching his (very mobile) ears, which are also mood indicators. There isn't going to be a lot of butt sniffing, and the small dog dinner bounce is rather unlikely, but it has already been established that the charisma-driven Vargr tend to get brave and stupid in large numbers, with no alcohol required.

 

[mr31337]

I was firmly against the notion of the Vargr, that was until I saw this video.