Huh? tantawhat?

[MongooseMatt]

You'd have thought that Mongoose would actually focus on the delayed and promised models before bringing out any new ones as this just makes customers more frustrated, especially if they have splashed out and paid in advance for these models.

Well, we have more than one employee here at Mongoose, and are capable of doing more than one thing at a time.

Seriously guys, do you _really_ not want to see new ways of using existing game resources?

 

[LaranosTZ]

Actually, I think that's pretty much exactly what they are saying. This is obviously a slap-together ship using parts of other ships that are not selling as well, that is the impression I get from looking at this piece.

Sure, you have more employees, but if you have the employees to spare working on new uses for overstocked parts, I think the general consensus is that we'd prefer to see those involved with ship sculpts working on revising or repairing other models that have either been promised, or have obviously been in bad need of repair throughout the monthes.

 

[MongooseMatt]

I am not a scupltor, but I am surprised that it has taken so long for the Drakh mothership, and indeed, we have not seen anything solid to prove the existence of a re-sculpt. easiest for the EA.

It _does_ take time. We are not using the standard sculpting methods for these new ships, but rather a 3D model/rapid prototyping approach. This involves a great deal of preparation - the flip side is that once the first model comes out (the Z'Takk), the others will be appearing in rapid succession. I believe I am right in saying that within three months, you will see all Armageddon ships (and many more besides).

The EA already have by far the largest selection of ships, now yes, they are Iconic to the show, and we associate with them for being Human, but they have 3 fleet lists, 4 if you count the psi corps, the Brakiri on the other hand, have a very limited selection, and as we are about to start a dilgar war campaign, my fleet will have to consist of 40 Ikortas if we use ISD's. It's bad enough that somehow the EA seem to be overtaking every other race in technology, which is unusual in a race that just had a huge civil war then a plague!easiest for the EA.

To take your example, the Brakiri are getting more new hulls this year than, well, any other race I think. There isn't a League race that is not getting reinforcements, and they will all be here before the summer. However, if one fleet is outpacing the others by at least three to one, is it any wonder it gets a little attention?

I doubt players mind the recycling of parts for new ships, but it does seem very EA heavy, possibly I suppose due to nature of their design it works easiest for the EA.

Exactly. Want to see similar things for alien races? Send them in to us!

 

[MongooseMatt]

Actually, I think that's pretty much exactly what they are saying. This is obviously a slap-together ship using parts of other ships that are not selling as well, that is the impression I get from looking at this piece.

Umm, pieces are cast to order - and if parts are overstocked, they can simply be melted down into something else. . .

Sure, you have more employees, but if you have the employees to spare working on new uses for overstocked parts, I think the general consensus is that we'd prefer to see those involved with ship sculpts working on revising or repairing other models that have either been promised, or have obviously been in bad need of repair throughout the monthes.

Well. . . I can't sculpt models, personally, and nor can anyone else who worked on the Tantalus. If the Tantalus article had not been produced, it would not have sped up the production of new models by a single day.

On the other hand, such models are clearly unpopular. No point in doing any more, right?

 

[Locutus9956]

Well to be honest Id say models like the Tantalus (and Command Omega) are fine as S&P articles but really, I dont see the point marketting them as seperate models when theyre just bits of other ships stuck togerther. Its not like you cant order parts anyway, if I want a Tantalus I could just order an omega rear and poseidon rotating bit and front.

Now I havent really looked at the compartive prices but the only way I would say its worth it to get these new 'kitbash' ships is if they were signifigantly cheaper than buying the parts seperately.

And to be honest this one just looks hideous anyway. The command Omega sort of works but this really doesnt for me Im afraid

 

[Triggy]

On the other hand, such models are clearly unpopular. No point in doing any more, right?

The trouble is, as with politics it's all about perception. The models themselves are not unpopular, just the perceived lack of attention to other issues at the moment. I totally see where each side is coming from and can understand how people like hiffano are getting frustrated (even if there is nothing more Mongoose can do).

Personally I'm not a fan of the Tantalus as I don't particularly like kitbashed ships but that at least is personal opinion. I really do like some of the other new models Mongoose is putting/has put out. I also see that the release of the Tantalus hasn't cost very much at all (compared to other ships) in terms of human resources used

 

[MongooseMatt]

Well to be honest Id say models like the Tantalus (and Command Omega) are fine as S&P articles but really, I dont see the point marketting them as seperate models when theyre just bits of other ships stuck togerther. Its not like you cant order parts anyway, if I want a Tantalus I could just order an omega rear and poseidon rotating bit and front.

Now I havent really looked at the compartive prices but the only way I would say its worth it to get these new 'kitbash' ships is if they were signifigantly cheaper than buying the parts seperately.

It _is_ just an S&P article - to go with that article, we packaged the bits together in one handy product code so people could order it. You will never see this model in the shops.

As for selling it cheaper than the parts would be separately, that just wouldn't make sense.

 

[H]

OK Matt, Explanation noted. lets hope your new method is sound, and we can ooh, and ahh over the new ships. I think it is a serious amount of frustration from everyone, and you are probably annoyed as well that the models, for what ever reason all seemed to explode the molds! Thanks for taking the time to read our concerns. Now, if only my drakh mo-ship arrives soon ;-)
can we at least get a pic of the design (i'm hoping it's not the old one, it was a bit ugly!)

As for the new EA ships, they are a bit Ugly, the Poseidon bit, while quite handy to work with is a bit oversized when taken alongside other ship bits. So I suppose, they "may" not sell, but then if they have cracking stats, people will still purchase them. I used ther Brakiri as an example of current state I know you said second ed sees a lot of new Brakiri ships, so I am hoping for some sexy new molds (and an Avioki upgrade!)

And I would love to send you something in, but I am about as talented a scupltor as the guy who did the Brivoki ;-)
I would like to propose you seriously consider source books like the EM war, covering different conflicts, if sold as paperbacks for a few quid I think people would buy them. (and I Will offer to do work here!)

 

[Tank]

On the other hand, such models are clearly unpopular. No point in doing any more, right?

Thats not whats being said, it's frustrating for people seeing new ships come out when others that were promised last year are still being delayed, especially for a fleet that has already had so many new models.

 

[MongooseMatt]

OK Matt, Explanation noted. lets hope your new method is sound, and we can ooh, and ahh over the new ships. I think it is a serious amount of frustration from everyone, and you are probably annoyed as well that the models, for what ever reason all seemed to explode the molds! Thanks for taking the time to read our concerns. Now, if only my drakh mo-ship arrives soon ;-)

It is either the Mothership or the Carrier that is one of the next ships to be completed - I'll check that out.

As for the new EA ships, they are a bit Ugly, the Poseidon bit, while quite handy to work with is a bit oversized when taken alongside other ship bits. So I suppose, they "may" not sell, but then if they have cracking stats, people will still purchase them. I used ther Brakiri as an example of current state I know you said second ed sees a lot of new Brakiri ships, so I am hoping for some sexy new molds (and an Avioki upgrade!)

What is quite worrying to us is the anti-EA sentiment. Their sales far outstrip other fleets and so that is where we must focus a proportionate amount of attention - think of GW and Space Marines. It is just common sense, especially as other fleets are not exactly lacking in hull variety (yes, even the Dilgar!).

That said, we have paid special attention to all fleets in the latest round of updates, and every fleet will be getting something new and shiney, be it new models, new variants, new themes or new rules.

I would like to propose you seriously consider source books like the EM war, covering different conflicts, if sold as paperbacks for a few quid I think people would buy them. (and I Will offer to do work here!)

This will actually be very easy for us to do, once our new printing facility is up and running, as we will no longer have to be so concerned about break even points on large print runs - more esoteric projects become possible.

However, this is balanced by our intention to get 'serious' CTA players buying just one hardback update every year that contains everything they need to know. If we were to release campaign books of various wars, it is inevitable that there would be new ships and rules that people would weant to use officially.

So, it is up to you guys, I guess. Do you want to buy more books, or less?

 

[H]

I understand the business statement, Of course you have to produce what sells the most, it does however as you say, look very space Mariney! It's probably a catch 22 situation, you build more as people buy it making you build more. . .
the other races need love, and in most cases may be happy with varients, rather than new models, However if you designed a very sexy fleet for a race, then people may well buy it

As for the books, I think people will baulk about paying £25 for a new rulebook every few months, but a paperback for £5.00 as a campaign book is less intimidating on the wallet, and will only be bought by people who play said fleet IF they are interested.
The other option on this of course, is maybe releasing a series of PDF's on your site for a few quid. If you use the talent availble from the forums (of which their is a considerable amount) you could cover every major conflict, and If it is done like Me and Morg, or rich Bax, you use existing hulls (mostly) so no need for new models!

I would buy a few sourcebooks for historical campaigns, whereas repeatedly buying new rulebooks and fleetlists is just frustrating

 

[Hash]

What is quite worrying to us is the anti-EA sentiment. Their sales far outstrip other fleets and so that is where we must focus a proportionate amount of attention - think of GW and Space Marines. It is just common sense, especially as other fleets are not exactly lacking in hull variety (yes, even the Dilgar!).

I would wager quite heavily that the players on the forum constitute a very small sample of the ACTA player base and the best data you have for what the customer wants is the bottom line - sales!

If the books sell well - print more books.
If EA outstrips everything else - put together more EA ships (but limit those that dont sell well).

Not trying to teach you to suck eggs here because that's obviously what Mongoose is doing but I think some people on the forum have to realise that at the end of the day if Mongoose doesn't make a profit on ACTA then the game shuts down and no-one gets to play - seriously guys have a coke and a smile and wait for a few weeks!

On the other hand - I don't think there really is an anti-EA sentiment, people here just feel frustrated , quite rightly, when they don't get the models they were "promised" or they get poor quality casts, and so when news of a new EA ship hits the site, regardless of another team working on it and it not impacting whatsoever on the release date for delayed ships, it sort of rubs salt in the wound.

In short, wargamers are a cynical bunch and you're going to get this sort of reaction everytime a new EA ship hits the stands before problems with existing minis are sorted.

Personally I think the Tantalus looks a little wierd but I think the Command Omega is great and a very worthy and needed addition to the EA fleet list. Do I want Mongoose to stop doing this stuff? HELL NO! I think the on-going commitment to support ACTA puts you head and shoulders above other gaming companies...seriously. I mean, what other games company would even *tolerate* fans with negative comments on their boards?

I just think you need to focus for a bit on delivering what you promised - once every race gets their shiny new minis from Armageddon and the new releases you hinted at come out, everyone will be singing Mongoose's praises...that or going mad on the boards if their orders are late!

Now that Z'Takk better come soon or I'll be joining the Cylon boys (Tenacious B and The Pirv) in their protest outside Mongoose offices :twisted:

 

[TenaciousB]

Any sign of new Dilgar ships or variants yet, Matt? There was supposed to be movement on this a while ago, and still nothing, yet EA keep getting more and more. I understand that EA are more popular, but that's no excuse to just ignore a certain part of the player base.

To be honest, I'm liking the news about stuff coming in the future, and 2nd edition sounds funky - I'll give it a try before judging it, of course - but I'm getting more and more disillusioned with the ACTA product as time goes on and still the same issues persist - Drakh mothership delayed for over 6 months, dodgy molds making dodgy models, long waits for products ordered in good faith, and lack of support for certain races.

It's good to be kept informed, but it would be greater to hear some timescale for the Dilgar and Drakh players to get their new toys.

 

[MongooseMatt]

It's good to be kept informed, but it would be greater to hear some timescale for the Dilgar and Drakh players to get their new toys.

To be honest, one of the factors here is that we were quite surprised to hear of the demand for more ships with fleets like the Dilgar. They were released only around 12 months ago, with brand new sculpts in the range, and it is not as if their fleets are really lacking in capability. Whereas different fleets/armies normally get their own development cycles, this demand has led us to take a more holistic view, taking a look at almost every fleet, rather than concentrating on just one.

That said, they will be getting some new options in the next incarnation of their fleet list, so it won't be long to wait. . .

 

[polemarch]

I think that Mongoose must love people like me.

I am not anti EA, it is just that I think that it is important to collect and play fleets that EA can fight against. Since Fluffy is collecting EA, I am not. Since he also has some Centari stuff, I am also steering clear of this. So I have a Vree Fleet and Brakiri fleet have just purchased a Dilgar fleet and both Minbari boxes plus other stuff. So Bunkerboi must be happy with me since he has moved a lot of stock, Mongoose must be happy since he will need to order more soon. 4 fleets in a month!!! :roll:

However I understand that lead times to delivery into Australia a poor, so even if i want to collect new miniatures, I think I am going to have to what at least 6 months before they are available here.

If I already had my fleets and were awaiting Armageddon releases I would be really frustrated as well. Which comes back to the point I think is being raised. Focus on one fleet at a time, but either have clear communication on what is coming next and an appropriate time frame, or make sure that you release some non EA stuff in conjunction with EA releases. If EA is so popular I imagine there are alot of civil wars being fought.

On an aside, what are the statistical breakdown on sales by fleet? Do you think that this is an indicator of who is playing what or do you think that only use counters for the less popular fleets?

 

[Locutus9956]

I know it doesnt make sense to sell them cheaper Id just perosnally think if you want to avoid all the 'oh no not more ea stuff' whiners that maybe easing off on doing this for EA ships till some of the other ones have been sorted might help ease tensions...

Personally it doesnt really bother me, as I said before I dont like the look of the Tantalus but then, I simply wont buy one, but thats a far cry from saying that no EA players will! To each their own (for example I love the Marathon and the Chronos, but I know lots of people who hate the designs) In fact, generally speaking, I love the design and function of ALL the crusade EA ships (with the exception of the Nemeisis and thinking Warlock should be war (liking the sound of version 2.0 though as both these minor issues will go away for me ).

As for the 'EA sell most therefore we make more for them' argument, this is of course good business sense but perhaps the other races might sell more if they got focussed on a bit more? Now in all honesty, most people I know play ACTA as they are fans of the show and the show is centered around an EA station and human characters (well arguably the show is more centered around Londo but thats another argument) and as such the EA fleet (along with the ISA) get the most screen time. So hardly any surprise that its these two fleets that seem to get the most attention in terms of new ships etc.

Id like to see the various problems all fixed too but Mongoose aint the worlds biggest companies and they DO listen to our oppinions both for and against for the most part and that for me is why Im still here and still playing ACTA, I do genuinely feel that if something is wrong with the game you guys are primarily concerned with making it right rather than just selling more stuff!

(basically people should be a little less eager to bite heads off (and yes I know Im not entirely innocent on that front myself and can only appologise for times I may have lost my temper a little, Im only human after all )

 

[Alexb83]

Speaking for myself, I dont have or really intend to get an EA fleet (I did buy a Nemesis, but simply because I liked the model - and there weren't Marathons available at the time - which I would've preferred). EA simply don't interest me, and I'll wager many other players out there.
In my experience of gaming groups, what tends to happen is that each player buys one fleet each, and you rarely see duplication, so it surprises me that EA outstrips the others by so much.

From tournaments etc., I've never once played against EA. At MoW, I played against League (combined, Brakiri, and Abbai) and ISA - I think I only even saw one EA fleet. So you may sell more - but like Space Marines I think people quickly graduate onto more interesting fleets.

But then perhaps my view is askew from the norm... I never bought a space Marine or Empire army either. And don't ever want to, thankyou very much...

 

[H]

Interesting point actually, Of the people I have played against, Nomad owns pretty much every fleet, but he bought a lot of them from AOG, I own Narn, brakiri, Drakh, and 6 (yes 6) mongoose EA ships, plus 2 Nikes. I only bought them cos I thought the Nike was the dogs danglies.
Karlpopli has EA, but doesn't play any more
other wise we have
Minbari and Dilgar
ISA and Abbai
Shadows
League
Vorlons
um, Centauri (but he sold em)
Another league
Drakh and ISA, and possible Pak

so EA and ISA are the top fleets but then I am missing out others who kinda stopped playing with narn, shadows, vorlons. And in the Tourneys, I thik Tank was the only EA player, with FA scale that didn't get bought from mongoose.

 

[Tank]

well I do have a large EA collection covering all 3 Era's but I also have

Minbari
Dilgar
Brakiri
Some Vree
A small but growing Narn selection

I know that Adam has
Lots of Centauri
Narn
Drazi
A few Brakiri
A few vree

Most of my stuff is fleet action but I do have full size EA & Brakiri fleets

 

[katadder]

i dont have any EA but i do have centauri, narn, minbari, ISA and abbai