HP Calculations for Creatures

[atgxtg]

Hit points are the sum of SIZ and CON so I'd just give the Gorp the FULL total. The human example with 15hp in RQ2 or 3 can now take much more than 15hp's before dropping.

Don't forget that spells have changed as well, Bladesharp 8 on a sword is a distinct possibility where in older editions it was max'd at 4. Other spells have had damaged bumped up too so giving the Gorp more hp means it won't roll over too quickly.

1) Bladeshapr wasn't maxed in RQ3.

2) The problem with giving the gorp SIZ+CON is that it is unfailr to creatures with multiple hit locations. If you compare the MRQ hP per locatio to those in RQ, you will see that they are not double. Someone with CON 15, SIZ 13 in RQ3 has 5 Hp in the legs, abdomen, and head; 4 in the arms; 6 in the chest.

THe MRQ character with CON 15, SIZ 14 has 6 hp in the legs, and head; 7 in the abdomen; 5 in the arms; 8 in the chest.

That isn't double the hp, it is about 1-2 hp more in each location. THat is roughly a 3 hp shift in RQ3 or a 5 hp shift in MRQ.

I suppose using (SIZ+CON)/2+3 would be about right. Not far off from the +10 mod either.

 

[Arkat]

THe MRQ character with CON 15, SIZ 14 has 6 hp in the legs, and head; 7 in the abdomen; 5 in the arms; 8 in the chest.

That isn't double the hp, it is about 1-2 hp more in each location. THat is roughly a 3 hp shift in RQ3 or a 5 hp shift in MRQ.

Ok using your example:

Right Leg: 5pts damage
Left Leg: 4pts damage
Abdomen: 5pts damage
Chest: 6pts damage
Right Arm: 3pts damage
Left Arm: 3pts damage
Head: 4pts damage

Total damage: 30pts. Using Con & Siz average = 14.

Looks like double to me. The difference is the human is still fully functional but the Gorp taking double is dead. This isn't even looking into the possibility of damage getting soaked by limbs going into negatives either.

Up to you, but I'll be giving my Gorps SIZ + CON for hp's.

 

[atgxtg]

THe MRQ character with CON 15, SIZ 14 has 6 hp in the legs, and head; 7 in the abdomen; 5 in the arms; 8 in the chest.

That isn't double the hp, it is about 1-2 hp more in each location. THat is roughly a 3 hp shift in RQ3 or a 5 hp shift in MRQ.

Ok using your example:

Right Leg: 5pts damage
Left Leg: 4pts damage
Abdomen: 5pts damage
Chest: 6pts damage
Right Arm: 3pts damage
Left Arm: 3pts damage
Head: 4pts damage

Total damage: 30pts. Using Con & Siz average = 14.

Looks like double to me. The difference is the human is still fully functional but the Gorp taking double is dead. This isn't even looking into the possibility of damage getting soaked by limbs going into negatives either.

Nope, nope, and nope. For one thing the total damage of adding up all the locations doesn't factor into MRWQ at all. You could give the same MRQ character 60 points of damage without being dead. 30 is merely the point where the character must make some sort of resistence roll.

IF you want to be fair, we should educe the HP per locations for monsters with hmore hit locations than humans to balance them out.

Secodnly the gorp takeing double isn't dead. According to MRQ, he gets rolls to stay up and fighting. Since GOPR are immune to nomral damage, they only ways to hurt them is with fire or certain types of magic. In old RQ 8 disrupts would kill the average GORP (or man for that matter). In MRQ even at +10, or avrage of SIZ and CON, 8 disrupts is just when the average gorp has to check to see if it passes out. It takes twice that to kill it, although it might be functional for a while after the killing strike.

Give a gopr CON+SIZ, and it will take 32 points of fire or magical disrupt, fireblade damage just to have a chance of fazing it-not killing it.

In RQ3, an human with 16 hp (average Gorp) would be killed by a 16 point chest wound, or 12 point head or abdomen wound. The gorp would be killed with 16 points of magical damage. So gorp damage is the same as a chest hit.

In MRQ, a character with CON+SIZ of 32 (equvianlent of 16 hp in RQ3) would be killed after taking 18 points to the chest, so the gorp should take about the same.

THat wourks out to a +12 modifer or (CON+SIZ/2) +2.

 

[Lorgryt]

THat wourks out to a +12 modifer or (CON+SIZ/2) +2.

After reading your's and Arkat's posts I have to agree... +12 it is.

 

[Lorgryt]

THat wourks out to a +12 modifer or (CON+SIZ/2) +2.

After reading your's and Arkat's posts I have to agree... +12 it is.

After playing with all of this info I have decided that (CON+SIZ/2) +2 is better.

When you get to the 1000 mark the difference is very obvious: yields a Chest of 202, a +12 of 211, and a (CON+SIZ/2) +2 of 502. So, at higher levels the (CON+SIZ/2) +2 yields the more normal results.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[atgxtg]

THat wourks out to a +12 modifer or (CON+SIZ/2) +2.

After reading your's and Arkat's posts I have to agree... +12 it is.

After playing with all of this info I have decided that (CON+SIZ/2) +2 is better.

When you get to the 1000 mark the difference is very obvious: yields a Chest of 202, a +12 of 211, and a (CON+SIZ/2) +2 of 502. So, at higher levels the (CON+SIZ/2) +2 yields the more normal results.

Thanks for all the input.

It is still a GORP that I wouldn't want to run into.

 

[Lorgryt]

It is still a GORP that I wouldn't want to run into.

:lol:

At that point it is Grandfather Gorp!

 

[atgxtg]

It is still a GORP that I wouldn't want to run into.

:lol:

At that point it is Grandfather Gorp!

Something like SIZ 650 and 600 metric tons. Probably the SIZ of a castle.

 

[Lorgryt]

It is still a GORP that I wouldn't want to run into.

:lol:

At that point it is Grandfather Gorp!

Something like SIZ 650 and 600 metric tons. Probably the SIZ of a castle.

With the size chart I am using 1000 HP would be SIZ 1986, 19860 tons. Yes, the size of a medium castle. Something on the God Plane... :lol:

But I must confess... I never intended 1000 HP to be used for a monster. It is just a way of checking if the two options worked for large items. I don't think they do. When you get to the big number you end up with a minor difference in HP Chest and HP Blob with the +12 instead of the roughly 2x HPs of the other method.

It is a scary thought to have a size 2000 monster Gorp rolling across a battlefield at Move 1, though... It won’t kill many until it hits the front lines... then watch the dissolving masses! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[atgxtg]

THe thing to keep in mind though is that the CON+SIZ methods (even the (CON+SIZ/2) +2) are probablt biased in favor of the 1 hit location monster, since it gives them twoce the damage soaking ability of anythinhg else.


Of course, I'm not a fan of the removal of total HP. At least not without putting some sort of wounding penality in it's place. Something like opposing damage (x5 or x10) with resilience for an effect.

THe big drawback to taking out total HP is that, while requireing the damage to be serious to be lethal, the damages done by weapons are too low in comparison to the way the hit point system now works. You just can't kill somone with one hit from most weapons anymore.

 

[Arkat]

Give a gopr CON+SIZ, and it will take 32 points of fire or magical disrupt, fireblade damage just to have a chance of fazing it-not killing it.

Aren't they immune to fire?

Sorry I don't want my gorps rolling over to being peppered by Speedart V arrows in one round. With the magnitude change (over RQ2) I think they are going to need it.

 

[atgxtg]

Give a gopr CON+SIZ, and it will take 32 points of fire or magical disrupt, fireblade damage just to have a chance of fazing it-not killing it.

Aren't they immune to fire?

Sorry I don't want my gorps rolling over to being peppered by Speedart V arrows in one round. With the magnitude change (over RQ2) I think they are going to need it.

Nope, they are not immune to fire (one of thier few weknesses). THey are immune to most weapon damages though, and some magical damages.

Considering how the new speedart works, you can't get a Speedart 5 yet (can't increase the magnitude, but at least the spell lasts forever).

Firearrow is the spell for killing Gorp. Always was. JUst now it isn't as good since the spells damage has dropped for 3D6 to 1D10. Even with the +12 idea, it still takes more firerarows tro kill a gorp in MRQ than in RQ.

Those monstrosities got to have a good resilience score-say 85% or more?

 

[Michael Hopcroft]

Actually, using a Gorp is probably misleading here, on account of those immunities. My bad.

What about a Slime then?

I am referring to the creatures that appear in the Dragon Quest video game series and things inspired by it, such as S. John Ross's Uresia setting and the anime/manga series Dragon Half.) Like Gorps, they have a single hit location that is pretty much indeterminate, but unlike a Gorp they are vulnerable to weapons and magic for the most part.

Also unlike Gorps they are, for the most part, fully sentient and capable of using skills, magic and communication (although their lack of physical manipulators makes weapon use impossible and most primarily-physical skills problematic). They are essentially blobs of goo, of varying size and coloration, who hop around and do things that any other sentient being would do if they happened to be blobs of goo of varying size and coloration. In short, while not Gloranthan by any stretch of the imagination, in a different sort of setting they are viable (if odd) PCs.

 

[AKAramis]

Bumping this to ask:

Has anyone analyzed the HP in the mosnters book?

Several spot checks don't fit the profile: giant crabs, Plesiasaurs, Hellion, Sharks, Giant Solpugid, Giant spiders...

 

[atgxtg]

Bumping this to ask:

Has anyone analyzed the HP in the mosnters book?

Several spot checks don't fit the profile: giant crabs, Plesiasaurs, Hellion, Sharks, Giant Solpugid, Giant spiders...

I don't have the mongers book. If you could show an example or two I'll see if I can reverse engineer a formula. It sounds like the old special case rules for multilimed creatures.

 

[AKAramis]

Bumping this to ask:

Has anyone analyzed the HP in the mosnters book?

Several spot checks don't fit the profile: giant crabs, Plesiasaurs, Hellion, Sharks, Giant Solpugid, Giant spiders...

I don't have the mongers book. If you could show an example or two I'll see if I can reverse engineer a formula. It sounds like the old special case rules for multilimed creatures.

Grab the SRD... it's got most of the critters.

 

[atgxtg]

Bumping this to ask:

Has anyone analyzed the HP in the mosnters book?

Several spot checks don't fit the profile: giant crabs, Plesiasaurs, Hellion, Sharks, Giant Solpugid, Giant spiders...

I don't have the mongers book. If you could show an example or two I'll see if I can reverse engineer a formula. It sounds like the old special case rules for multilimed creatures.

Grab the SRD... it's got most of the critters.

Oh yeah, an SRD!


After DLing and glossing over it, it appears that they do use the foumula, but use a much lower mod for "secondary limbs" such as on crabs and spiders. I think the idea was to allow for big tough creatures, while still allowing for limbs to get hacked off easily. I'll go over the SRD later and try to reverse engineer the hit location stuff and update the master chart.

 

[Rurik]

As far as I can tell for simplicities sake they moved away from the x% of total hp type model used in RQ3 for a simpler +1 per 5 STR+SIZ model.

If a creatures STR+SIZ is 43, it falls in the 41-45 range (as per humanoid ranges in character creation). A creature with a STR+SIZ of 53 would be 2 brackets greater, and so have two more points per location.

So look at the Average stats for the monster and determine what bracket it falls in. If your creature is in a different bracket, adjust the HP per location up or down by 1 for each bracket of difference.

 

[Fishy]

Well, that makes it easy to adapt creatures to larger or smaller forms, but you're still relying on pinching the Hit Locations from an existing creature for new monsters.
A compiled set of all the hit location tables with their appropriate mods (an MRQ version of the one that came in RQ3) would certainly be useful if anyone has worked one up.

 

[atgxtg]

Well, that makes it easy to adapt creatures to larger or smaller forms, but you're still relying on pinching the Hit Locations from an existing creature for new monsters.
A compiled set of all the hit location tables with their appropriate mods (an MRQ version of the one that came in RQ3) would certainly be useful if anyone has worked one up.

I don't think so, but it looks like a good idea. I just wonder if MRQ creatures are designed consistently so that such a set of Hit Location charts would be valid. IN RQ3 the basic humandoid, quadruped, etc charts all worked along the same lines. Some of the creatures in the SRD make me suspect that some of the creatures were build with their own Hit Location chart modifiers. Maybe crabs get a bonus to thier "arm"/claws HP?

Charts like that would be a good addtion to a MRQ beastiary. Thinking about it, even the +1/-1 HP per location per 5 STR+SIZ from the norm hasn't been officially confirmed, and it would be helpful to get the offical thumbs up for those who roll up stats for monsters instead of taking the average values.