Howard, Tolkien and Lovecraft Comparative Studies

[geordiekimbo]

The influence that makes me laugh is the LOTRs influence on Warhammer Battle and Roleplay.. (for influence, i mean rip off). But then again GW never seems to have had a problem with using current popular culture (often film or book influenced) to increase its popularity or WFB, WFRP, and W40k.

Terminators (unstoppable killing machines)
Predator (naming a tank after a film that had just come out)
Genestealer (Alien series)
Lasgun (Dune series?)
Shield Generator (Dune series?)
Emperor (Dune series)
Dark Age of Technology (Dune series)
et al

I was expecting at one time as a w40k player of Robocops turning up within the game.

However I also think in addition to Tolkien,Howard and Lovecraft that Michael Moorcock also seems to have a lot of influence on aspects of the RPGs.

 

[Ltlconf]

Hello Folks,

Moorcock's Elric series, now there's a bleak view of the world! :wink:

 

[The King]

Hello Folks,

Moorcock's Elric series, now there's a bleak view of the world! :wink:

You're right there. Moorcock belongs to this family. He wrote himself that he was commissioned by Karl Edward Wagner to write further Conan stories but that he decided to create an anti-hero. Elric was thus born. I don't know whether this is a coincidence, but the arch foe of Elric is a sorcerer as is de Camp's Thoth-Amon for Conan.
His ideas of struggling law and chaos are awesome though.

 

[geordiekimbo]

Elric was thus born. I don't know whether this is a coincidence, but the arch foe of Elric is a sorcerer as is de Camp's Thoth-Amon for Conan.
His ideas of struggling law and chaos are awesome though.

The Stormbringer RPG is good too. Captures the essence of Moorcocks works quite well in the same way that Mongoose have captured the flavour of Conan in their game.

 

[The King]

I agree. Stormbringer was one of the only game with a sword & sorcery setting without magic (that is a few spell and demon summoning).
The excellent campaign in 2 modules (black sword + stealer of soul) is a must have and a great reference to create adventures for Conan RPG.

 

[Thoth Aw C'mon]

Hello Folks,

Moorcock's Elric series, now there's a bleak view of the world! :wink:

You're right there. Moorcock belongs to this family. He wrote himself that he was commissioned by Karl Edward Wagner to write further Conan stories but that he decided to create an anti-hero. Elric was thus born. I don't know whether this is a coincidence, but the arch foe of Elric is a sorcerer as is de Camp's Thoth-Amon for Conan.
His ideas of struggling law and chaos are awesome though.

I didnt know that about KEW and Moorcock. Thats interesting. Elric is a great character, and is indeed the exact opposite of Conan in many ways: Conan is physically strong and Elric is physically weak. Conan is an adventurer and becomes a king, Elric is a King and becomes an adventurer. Conan is a great warrior; Elric is a great sorceror. I could go on. Moorcock's six book saga of Elric was great- I see he has added some books and some stories to this in recent years. They dont appear to be up to par with the original six books- they kind of have that feel that "Uncle Michael has some bills to pay" and so - zing- out comes another Elric book to generate some fast bucks. I dont know. But Moorcock's Corum books were excellent as well.

 

[Thoth Aw C'mon]

Elric was thus born. I don't know whether this is a coincidence, but the arch foe of Elric is a sorcerer as is de Camp's Thoth-Amon for Conan.
His ideas of struggling law and chaos are awesome though.

The Stormbringer RPG is good too. Captures the essence of Moorcocks works quite well in the same way that Mongoose have captured the flavour of Conan in their game.

I agree totally. The Stormbringer RPG remains one of my all time favorite RPGs. I'm refering to the first one that came out, as I think they have since come out with a D20 version- the first version was a percentile system that really worked well. Its really an excellent game and it captured Moorcock's feel of that world wonderfully.

 

[The King]

Moorcock's six book saga of Elric was great- I see he has added some books and some stories to this in recent years. They dont appear to be up to par with the original six books

In fact Moorcock always thought he had ended the Elric cycle (with the death of Elric and the world, he couldn't write much more). But he developped new ideas on the idea of the eternal champion which I initially thought pompous but which are in fact as good (with the added experience of the writer - because he wrote the first novels in 1970). Thus I can recommend you:
- The revenge of the rose and
- The fortress of the pearl.
I didn't have the time to read the last one (Elric's daughter).

 

[Ltlconf]

Hello Folks,

I'll agree with King here (hey, no shock, I really do agree with his literary taste :shock: ). I prefer the "Hawkmoon" stories but I've rarely read anything from M.M. I've disliked, rather some I prefer over others. I would recommend any collection of his short stories you can find.

 

[toothill man]

I have a complete collection of micheal moorcock and its 3 shelves worth and growing :shock: how many books did howard publish in his life time same with lovecraft and tolkien as mm output is amazing.

 

[toothill man]

I have a complete collection of micheal moorcock and its 3 shelves worth and growing :shock: how many books did howard publish in his life time same with lovecraft and tolkien as mm output is amazing.

can anyone help and also thats published purly on own and not under pretend names

 

[Strom]

Robert E. Howard never had a book published in his lifetime - all of his stories were to different genres of pulp magazines. The Hour of the Dragon was an attempt to write a novel for a British publisher but the publisher went bankrupt before the story could be published - it was then serialized in Weird Tales. Howard did submit a book of his poetry in 1928 called "Singers in the Shadows" but the publisher rejected it. It was later published in the 50's.

Although Howard never published a novel in his lifetime he was very productive and wrote numerous stories in numerous genres and those have since been collected numerous times and can (and have!) filled many bookshelves.

This is a great website on all things Howard:

http://www.rehupa.com/

 

[toothill man]

thank you now any one know about lovecraft?

 

[toothill man]

and good site thank you for the link 8)

 

[The King]

thank you now any one know about lovecraft?

Lovecraft also never wrote a novel excepted the short but excellent "Case Charles Dexter Ward" the best story on witchcraft ever.
August Derleth collected his stories to release them as book. He founded the famous Arkham House.

 

[Yogah of Yag]

Not to interrupt Raven's Crimson Mist, but...

I too would love to get seriously into Lovecraft.
Are there any definitive, respected collections?

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Not to interrupt Raven's Crimson Mist, but...

I told you people I had ranks in Barbarian. 8)

I too would love to get seriously into Lovecraft.
Are there any definitive, respected collections?

Not that I've seen save for the original Arkham Press ones released by August Derelth way back in the past. Other books I have read besides those three volumes have always had just a selection of stories as the editor liked them and even mix other people highly inferior 'Mythos' stories.

I will suggest though The Annotaited[sp?] Lovecraft Coleection. it only includes three or four of Lovecraft's stories but includes a brief bio, information on the the sources of Lovecraft's inspirtaions and full footnotes on all words and term that might be confusing to people of the 21st century. It's a good starting point. I'll look up the particulars in the library when I can and post the detail fothe book so it will be easier to find.

 

[geordiekimbo]

I too would love to get seriously into Lovecraft.
Are there any definitive, respected collections?

I still find it very surprising just how much Lovecrafts work has influenced other authors and films to this very day. Such was the popularity of his works, you shouldn't limit your reading to just Lovecraft but also read the works of the author whom he influenced, including one Robert E. Howard.
I don't know any definitive collections but I'll recommend you some of the books that I have in my collection.

H. P. Lovecraft: Tales
ISBN: 1931082723
Library of America
850 page monster. It includes The Call of Cthulhu, and At The Mountains of Madness

Tales of the Cthulhu Mythos by various authors including Lovecraft
ISBN: 034542204X
Del Rey
Very interesting collection of stories. This also contains The Call of Cthulhu

I'd also like to recommend

The Yellow Sign and Other Stories: The Complete Weird Tales of Robert W. Chambers
ISBN: 1568821263
Chaosium

Or

The Hastur Cycle by various authors.
ISBN: 1568820941
Chaosium

And

Nameless Cults: The Complete Cthulhu Mythos Tales Of Robert E. Howard
ISBN: 1568821301
Chaosium

Even buying the RPG Call of Cthulhu by Chaosium is a good start, there are lots of interesting quotes and passages in there.

 

[toothill man]

the collections do turn up from time to time but even the paperbacks are getting scarce .chaosium is famous in our world for the CoC roleplaying game but it has never made money or never much money it is its collections of lovecraft and others of his circle that pays the bills.

 

[toothill man]

if I wanted to read all lovecrafts mythos stories and that of his circle I would choose chaosium 8) everywere has papa tolkens books 8) but which novels whould be canon for conan as even a time line is a point of veiw and not gospel :shock: