How much damage would a Barbette Laser do?

[Infojunky]

Contemplating Ship weapons, and the absence of Heavy Lasers came to mind, as such the question.

How much damage would a Barbette Laser do?

 

[Jeraa]

I would suggest 3d6.

A particle beam barbette does 4d6, and the laser barbette should be less than that. A single turret pulse laser does 2d6 damage, and a barbette laser should be more than that. That only leaves 3d6 damage.

 

[phavoc]

3d6 seems reasonable. If you want that route you could also look at some other subtle changes.

Standard Heavy Laser barbette - 1 hardpoint, 3 tons

Dual Heavy Laser barbette - 1 hardpoint, 5 tons

I think keeping them in single/dual mounts works ok. They don't get the radiation damage that a PA does, but they do provide more bang for your buck, so there's no real reason to limit it to a single weapon per hardpoint. It also gives more variation in the weapons arena, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Infojunky]

I was thinking kinda along those lines too....

Try this:

Heavy Beam Laser 2d6, requires a Double turret for one, a triple for a twin mount.
Barbette Beam Laser 3d6, requires the standard 5 tons.
Both with a Medium range

Heavy Pulse Laser 3d6, requires a Double turret for one, a triple for a twin mount.
Barbette Beam Laser 4d6, requires the standard 5 tons.
Both with a Short Range and the -2 to hit.

 

[Infojunky]

3d6 seems reasonable. If you want that route you could also look at some other subtle changes.

Standard Heavy Laser barbette - 1 hardpoint, 3 tons

Dual Heavy Laser barbette - 1 hardpoint, 5 tons

I think keeping them in single/dual mounts works ok. They don't get the radiation damage that a PA does, but they do provide more bang for your buck, so there's no real reason to limit it to a single weapon per hardpoint. It also gives more variation in the weapons arena, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I kinda like this too....

 

[phavoc]

Since you are changing the weapon system, I'd leave the weapons as requiring a barbette, not a turret. Really the PA should probably be in a single-mount barbette too, since it's more powerful. I'd have to go look at the prices to figure out where the cost should run, but I think it would be fine to keep the heavier weapons in a barbette mount. I suppose you could have a dual-PA mount as well. The few extra tons per mount won't be an issue to a warship, plus it gives an architect a true decision point on how to play off having fewer, heavier weapons vs more lighter ones.

I'd also restrict all barbette weapons to being anti-ship, anti-small craft only. they would be like the 8" gun on cruisers, and the standard laser a 5" gun. 8" were not suitable for AA missions, but 5" were dual-purpose anti-ship/anti-aircraft.

 

[sideranautae]

Contemplating Ship weapons, and the absence of Heavy Lasers came to mind, as such the question.

How much damage would a Barbette Laser do?

5D4

 

[locarno24]

3d6 seems reasonable. If you want that route you could also look at some other subtle changes.

Standard Heavy Laser barbette - 1 hardpoint, 3 tons

Dual Heavy Laser barbette - 1 hardpoint, 5 tons

I think keeping them in single/dual mounts works ok. They don't get the radiation damage that a PA does, but they do provide more bang for your buck, so there's no real reason to limit it to a single weapon per hardpoint. It also gives more variation in the weapons arena, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I like. Possibly I might stretch to more than 2 shots - especially if using a pulse laser statline: A rapid-fire barbette for engaging fighters and point defence makes sense - essentially it's a 30mm CIWS rather than half a dozen .50 calibres. Give it an Auto score like a railgun bay?

 

[phavoc]

I like. Possibly I might stretch to more than 2 shots - especially if using a pulse laser statline: A rapid-fire barbette for engaging fighters and point defence makes sense - essentially it's a 30mm CIWS rather than half a dozen .50 calibres. Give it an Auto score like a railgun bay?

I dunno, I kind of like to put the heavier weapon systems to gun naval analogues. 50 ton bays would be like 10-12", and 100 ton bays would be 15-16". That would leave the barbette at the 8" category and smaller turrets in the 5" category. Since they are supposed to be "heavy" weapons, I'd think they should not be capable of engaging something as small as a missile or torpedo. But small craft would be fair game (bay's should also probably be prohibited from targeting small craft, since they are true ship killers).

The lack of point defense has always bugged me. But in order to allow point defense you have to allow for larger missile salvos. I have tinkered with the idea of having pulse lasers be convertable to point defense using a mechanical/software change. It should take say 4 turns to convert a pulse laser, which means you can't swap back and forth so you have to plan ahead and go with more offense, or more defense. The pulse laser, by it's nature, would be able to engage say up to 4 missiles/turn, and would have to limit it's targetting to missile or torps within a single salvo. That way if you had multiple pulse lasers in the same turret they couldn't be used for blasting everything in the heavens. And the range would be short. Maybe allowing beam lasers to engage them at one band higher, but limiting them to a single shot per turn, with same rules to allow for multiple beams in a turret. I would probably limit the turret to either offense, or defensive fire per turn.

 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

You mean point defense as in able to fire upon multiple incoming threats without penalty?
Because a regular laser turret can target any number of missiles, with increasing penalty to hit, as long as the gunner doesn't miss.

As for laser barrette, I'd like to see it not too powerful, but rather more shots, say 2d6 damage, auto 6 or thereabouts, with no -2 to hit like the burst laser. And allow it to shoot down missiles, either more hits before penalty, or even a bonus to the first shot (due to the high RoF). Perhaps roll 3 dice per missile and discard the lowest?

 

[phavoc]

You mean point defense as in able to fire upon multiple incoming threats without penalty?
Because a regular laser turret can target any number of missiles, with increasing penalty to hit, as long as the gunner doesn't miss.

Yep. It would be more like a CIWS system, with the assumption that the missiles would be performing evasive actions on their trip to the target, making it pretty much impossible to hit them with weaponfire until they were at short range. At the speed they would be traveling you wouldn't have time for human input, it would be all automatic.

Of course the addition of real missile defense would require the need for being able to launch much larger salvo's than you can at present. In essence it would require a complete re-jiggering of the missile/anti-missle system.

 

[Infojunky]

Since you are changing the weapon system, I'd leave the weapons as requiring a barbette, not a turret. Really the PA should probably be in a single-mount barbette too, since it's more powerful. I'd have to go look at the prices to figure out where the cost should run, but I think it would be fine to keep the heavier weapons in a barbette mount.

In the old days The 5 dTon PA Barbette at TL14 was the precursor to the 3 dTon Pa Turret at TL15. But those is those days...

I suppose you could have a dual-PA mount as well. The few extra tons per mount won't be an issue to a warship, plus it gives an architect a true decision point on how to play off having fewer, heavier weapons vs more lighter ones.

Which is an Idea.

I'd also restrict all barbette weapons to being anti-ship, anti-small craft only. they would be like the 8" gun on cruisers, and the standard laser a 5" gun. 8" were not suitable for AA missions, but 5" were dual-purpose anti-ship/anti-aircraft.

I am not sure I would make this analogy, in that if I where to add in Barbettes as a size class then I would equate them with 5 inch naval guns and treat turrets as the 3 inch naval cannons that the often equate to.

 

[Nerhesi]

An extra 1d6. Barbettes uniformly add +1d6 damage for the other beam weapons.

Particle cannon 3d6, Particle Barbette 4d6
Plasma cannon 3d6, Plasma Barbette 4d6

 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

That's true, +1d6 is the traditional way of barbette-ifying a weapon. It would be almost pointless for a laser though, wouldn't it?

A particle beam may be mounted one per turret, so it's always a damage gain to mount a barbette, if tonnage allows it. For a plasma cannon, it's not an automatic win, since they can dual mount. Against heavily armed opponents the plasma barbette comes out superior, but against lesser foes a dual turret would be better.

Lasers, however, can be triple mounted. In the rare case that one 2d6 hit would be better than 3x 1d6, there's always the possibility to use burst lasers instead. Sure, a beam barbette would get rid of that pesky -2 to hit, but a triple burst turret deals more damage upon a successful hit.

There is one thing I can see a burst laser barbette useful for. If particle, plasma and railguns are illegal for non-military ships, a burst barbette becomes a convenient way to reach 3d6 damage.

 

[Infojunky]

That's true, +1d6 is the traditional way of barbette-ifying a weapon. It would be almost pointless for a laser though, wouldn't it?

It really depends on how much trans Atmospheric fire you expect to be doing, PAs are pretty much binary in which mode they are in, in Atmo or vacuum... While Laser don't have that limitation.

Lasers, however, can be triple mounted. In the rare case that one 2d6 hit would be better than 3x 1d6, there's always the possibility to use burst lasers instead. Sure, a beam barbette would get rid of that pesky -2 to hit, but a triple burst turret deals more damage upon a successful hit.

It really depends on how much armor the target has, 3 points and your triple turret has had it's effectiveness at least halved.

There is one thing I can see a burst laser barbette useful for. If particle, plasma and railguns are illegal for non-military ships, a burst barbette becomes a convenient way to reach 3d6 damage.

That really depends on what switches you are playing with in your game.

 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

That's true, +1d6 is the traditional way of barbette-ifying a weapon. It would be almost pointless for a laser though, wouldn't it?

It really depends on how much trans Atmospheric fire you expect to be doing, PAs are pretty much binary in which mode they are in, in Atmo or vacuum... While Laser don't have that limitation.

Trans atmospheric fire? Is this a rule I've missed ?

Lasers, however, can be triple mounted. In the rare case that one 2d6 hit would be better than 3x 1d6, there's always the possibility to use burst lasers instead. Sure, a beam barbette would get rid of that pesky -2 to hit, but a triple burst turret deals more damage upon a successful hit.

It really depends on how much armor the target has, 3 points and your triple turret has had it's effectiveness at least halved.

There is one thing I can see a burst laser barbette useful for. If particle, plasma and railguns are illegal for non-military ships, a burst barbette becomes a convenient way to reach 3d6 damage.

That really depends on what switches you are playing with in your game.

Well, true, against lightly armored opponents there is some benefit with a laser barbette in the form discussed above. An important thing to consider though: Would a barbette be useful for point defence, against missiles and such? If not, it might not be worth it, requiring more space than a triple turret but dealing less damage than any other barbette...

 

[Infojunky]

Trans atmospheric fire? Is this a rule I've missed ?

Well, no rules other than basic physics....

As for further thoughts a tweak of the base rules goes a long way to fix some of what I was thinking. In that using how hits are rolled for by turrets, Pulse lasers must roll per individual weapon, while beam lasers roll for the entire mount, with that pulse lasers apply damage per weapon, while beam lasers for the entire mount. Thus a triple turret mounting Beam lasers can do 3d6 damage.

Following that then the 4d6 Laser Barbette falls into place.

 

[tuz_sen]

I realize this is a little late but my rules for a laser barbette are:
Laser Barbette (TL 9)
Higher energy laser with much larger capacitor banks allowing much more damage.
Damage: 3d6 Volume: 5 tons Cost: 2 MCr Optimum Range: Medium