How do newbies use jump points....

[Captain Kremmen]

Hi all,

I notice a lot of ships have jump points, and the minbari etc have advanced jump points. Seems that mostly though they are never used. All ships start on board and would not normally leave. Are they just there because of the tie in to the series, or are they actually used for anything in the game?

My understanding is that advanced jump points can land anywhere with no deviation and the ships come through firing. Presumably you can open a jump point 2 inches in front of an opponent, come straight through and blow him to hell before he even knows what happened (if you are the Minbari)?

Kremmen

 

[Burger]

Better to open a jump point 2 inches behind your opponent
Note that you cannot move through the jump point in the same turn as it is opened; your opponent will have one or two movement phases to get a bit away from your ship.

They are used in some scenarios, where you are allowed to keep ships in hyperspace at the start. You can use the jump points to bring the ships into the battle wherever you choose.

They are also used as jump point bombs, since a jump point does a 6AD triple damage attack on anything within 4 (or is it 6?) inches in its F arc. This applies to incoming jump points only, and is regarded as a cheesy tactic.

They are used to save ships in campaigns, so they can be repaired for the next battle rather than losing them totally.

For VP purposes it is better to make a tactical withdrawl through a jump point, than to get blown up.

 

[locarno24]

They are also used as jump point bombs, since a jump point does a 6AD triple damage attack on anything within 4 (or is it 6?) inches in its F arc. This applies to incoming jump points only, and is regarded as a cheesy tactic.

Only really applies to advanced jump points, again.

I rarely ever see anyone use conventional jump points outside campaigns, but AJPs are nasty. Not just for jump point bombing, but also to be able to set up absolutely textbook perfect attack runs with otherwise big unwieldy ships (Vorlon Heavy cruiser springs to mind).

Doubly dangerous with things like minbari who can come through not just shooting, but using Concentrate all Fire! as they emerge.

Pretty much write off whatever they're targeting...

 

[Burger]

Doubly dangerous with things like minbari who can come through not just shooting, but using Concentrate all Fire! as they emerge.

Just a note to say that a ship cannot come through its own jump point on CAF! because it must use the special action "Initiate Jump Point" on that turn, to maintain the JP. It cannot perform 2 special actions in that turn.

It can CAF! however, if it travels onto the board through another ship's jump point. At last, a use for Torothas!

 

[Reaverman]

Remember my Vorlon JP attack on Tanks Fleet!

 

[Captain Kremmen]

thanks guys, i tend to agree that jump point bombs are cheesy, don't remember ever seing that done in the series. might have a house rule stopping jump points being initially targetted within 6 inches of a ship (not fighter)

 

[Burger]

A house rule that they don't do damage, would be better IMO. sometimes its a valid tactic to jump right on top on your opponent, and restricting this because of some people who use JP's as extra weapons, is bad.

Best JP bomb I did was at Q-Con against Digger... 3 crits on a Primus

 

[Sulfurdown]

A jump point attack may not be in the TV show explicitly, but it does appear in one of the movies. Minbari vs EA, the Blackstar I believe. Of course that wasn't a "Jump Point Bombing" attack as I understand them, since the ship actually came through to continue the attack.
If people want a house rule to discourage using jump point attacks, what about saying that if the jump point hits any ships in the target area they take a comparable amount of damage as feedback is generated in their jump drives? Possibly even a critical or two?

 

[MarkNorfolk]

Doubly dangerous with things like minbari who can come through not just shooting, but using Concentrate all Fire! as they emerge.

Just a note to say that a ship cannot come through its own jump point on CAF! because it must use the special action "Initiate Jump Point" on that turn, to maintain the JP. It cannot perform 2 special actions in that turn.
!

But, as pointed out, a ship does not come through a Jump Point on the turn it was opened but the turn after, allowing it to thus perform CAF (AJP ships only).

BTW a ship orbiting a planet can use 'Come About' and another Special Action - another time you can use two Special Actions a turn.

Cheers
Mark

 

[Sulfurdown]

Doubly dangerous with things like minbari who can come through not just shooting, but using Concentrate all Fire! as they emerge.

Just a note to say that a ship cannot come through its own jump point on CAF! because it must use the special action "Initiate Jump Point" on that turn, to maintain the JP. It cannot perform 2 special actions in that turn.
!

But, as pointed out, a ship does not come through a Jump Point on the turn it was opened but the turn after, allowing it to thus perform CAF (AJP ships only).

BTW a ship orbiting a planet can use 'Come About' and another Special Action - another time you can use two Special Actions a turn.

Cheers
Mark

Don't ships need to continue the IJP! action each round to keep it open?

 

[Calistan]

Are there rules for the "Bone Head Maneuver"? A jump gate within a jump gate, that is what I would concider a Jump Gate bomb.

 

[Burger]

But, as pointed out, a ship does not come through a Jump Point on the turn it was opened but the turn after, allowing it to thus perform CAF (AJP ships only).

BTW a ship orbiting a planet can use 'Come About' and another Special Action - another time you can use two Special Actions a turn.

Cheers
Mark

As Sulfurdown says yes, the ship needs to continue to perform IJP to keep it open, on the turn it moves through. So it cannot CAF.
Rulesmasters reference: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18654

The rules for orbiting planets are different to Come About. This is not a special action, it is an extra free movement. The only time you can perform 2 special actions, is if you have a special character on board.

 

[Greg Smith]

Armageddon will make jump point bombs more difficult.

The only real use I have seen for standard jump points is to bug out when the going gets tough.

 

[Abraxas]

Are there rules for the "Bone Head Maneuver"? A jump gate within a jump gate, that is what I would concider a Jump Gate bomb.

You want a rule? How about:
When a jump point is formed while IN a jumpgate everything on the table dies... except White Stars of course.

You can't really make a rule for such a "tactic" (and I use the term loosely). It's just too devastating.

As for jump points... I think they need to become more useful in-game... though I do not know how. Otherwise they are relagated to "jump point bombing" cause you have nothing else to do with them.

As for jump point bombs themselves... kinda cheesey. You could just argue that the jump points as formed above/below the target ship and not where the enemy is. Sounds fine to me.

 

[Silvereye]

I have only found AJP bombs useful against low hull targets, when they might do some damage. I'd rather use it to drop something with lots of firepower right where an opponent doesn't want it. About the best use I have found for a Torotha so far is a hyperspace delivery system.

It must be noted that the ships (A)JP determines whether it can act when it emerges, not the (A)JP that was used to create the jump point.

For example. The EA start the game with a Warlock and a Hermes in hyperspace. On turn 1 the EA player decides to bring them into play. The EA player has some options. A jump point may be opened with either (or both) ships as they are both jump capable. On turn 2 the EA player may bring in the ship or ships in from hyperspace. So, the ships may enter from any jump point created by an allied vessel.

If the Warlock created and maintained the jump point, the Hermes could use it, but would be unable to fire, launch its starfuries or perform a special action as it only has a JP. The Warlock could enter through its own jump point and would still be able to fire its weaponry as normal. However as it needs to maintain the point it would be unable to perform a special action or launch fighters.

If the Hermes created and maintained the jump point, the Warlock could use it and would be able to fire and launch fighters or perform a special action as it has an AJP. The Hermes could enter through its own jump point but would be unable to fire or launch its starfuries, as it only has a JP, or perform a special action as it has already performed a special action to maintain the JP this turn.

-Edit-
Final paragraph now has punctuation.

 

[Commador Q]

i think the best way to make jump points usefull during normal play would be to allow ships to return from hyperspace after they have retreated to it.

while this would not be very B-5ish in what it might do to combat (and therefor probably no one would like the sugestion), i think it could be interesting. ships could generate jump points to be used as "tunnels" permitting better long range battlefield coverage for slow ships. or damaged ships could "retreat" only to come back from another JP. not to mention the ability to use JPs as a bluff, since your oponents wouln't know what you intend to do with that pair of outgoing and incomming jps you just set up.

unfortunately this would be notably more effective if used with AJP ships than normal JP ships so it doesn't completely solve the "regular JP have no use" problem so much as it makes jump points more abusable in general.

all and all this sytem should be reserved for special scenarios, but might be worth trying out.

 

[Silvereye]

Regular jump points do have a use, you just have to be a little more carefull and a little more willing to accept it might go wrong is all. Or just open a few more jump points at the same time and pick the best one(s) to enter through.

 

[Estalies]

my group does not allow advanced jump point bombing, only regular jump points may cause a bombing. or the games get stupid when fighting a advanced jump point fleet player who only wants to bomb, not play...

 

[lastbesthope]

thanks guys, i tend to agree that jump point bombs are cheesy, don't remember ever seing that done in the series. might have a house rule stopping jump points being initially targetted within 6 inches of a ship (not fighter)

Done in In the beginning, and then there was the bonehead manoeuvre in the opener of Season 3. Not quite the same thing, but I'd love to see a game mechanic for it :lol:

LBH

 

[Geekybiker]

Still think they need to make AJP scatter a d6. Makes "bombs" a really risky proposition. Especially since orientation is fixed before scatter. Means if you try and bomb someone you might come out facing away from your target.