How can pirates work?

[SSWarlock]

Another thing, if these pirates are hiding in empty space, where do they get fuel?

Has anybody mentioned Q ships yet?

Fuel can be had from comets, icy asteroids, outlying planetary iceballs no one care about (Pluto/Charon-like worlds), and the Oort Cloud of any system. The problem is knowing consistently where such ice bodies will be.

As for Q-ships, they likely would be operating only as auxiliary units for a provisional navy or a megacorp wanting to protect its shipping in known problem areas.

The real fun for piracy comes in when two or more corporations partake in a business tactic known as "trade war" and begin using limited piracy against the ships of one or more business rivals. The Imperium is known to turn a blind eye to this as long as it doesn't get out of hand.

 

[Hyphen]

Dear Folks -

For all your piracy debate needs, try here:
Beowulf Down
==> The Best of the TML
==> Background
==> Background - The Sunbeard Declaration

 

[Infojunky]

Dear Folks -

For all your piracy debate needs, try here:
Beowulf Down
==> The Best of the TML
==> Background
==> Background - The Sunbeard Declaration

Hyphen the real hot Pirate debate was over in the Deckplans thread, of all things...

But it looks like it has been put out for now. Maybe.

 

[Infojunky]

Dear Folks -

For all your piracy debate needs, try here:
Beowulf Down
==> The Best of the TML
==> Background
==> Background - The Sunbeard Declaration

Hyphen the real hot Pirate debate was over in the Deckplans thread, of all things...

But it looks like it has been put out for now. Maybe.

 

[zozotroll]

One thing to consider...Are the authoritys smart or stupid? As a major war has just ended, and the 3I won it seems likely that at least many in the Navy are smart, or at least competent. Most likely, any incompetents got whacked by the Zho, or tossed out the airlock by Duke Norris.

Navys exist for reasons, and just cirleing the capital is not really one of them. Allowing the Zhos to establish a base anywhere in the SM comes under the heading Bad Idea. So a competent Navy isd going to try to prevent that. And, the patroling involved will stamp on any piratesas well, unless you want to propose that the whole Nay is corrupt and likes pirates.

So what do they have to [patrol with? If resources are limited then perhaps there will only be limited patroling.

Here are some numbers. Every sector gets at least one BatRon of Tigress Dreadnaughts. They also get at least 4-5 BatRons of Kokirack dreadnaughts as well. There are lots of other classes that are assigned to the fleets, but these will do for a start.

A single Tigress costs as much as 2164 Gazelle close escorts. Or 2967 Dragon SDBs. Or 9251 Far traders. Or even 20515 Scouts. And that doesnt count the price of the fighters or other stuff on the DN, just the bare ship.

A Kokirrack works out to 1251 gazelles, 1717 Dragons, 5355 Fartraders, or 10115 scouts..

That means that for 1 DN out of many hundreds, you can put 51 scouts in every single system in the SM. Or for half a batron you can get 5 gazelles, 7 dragons and 23 Far Traders.

And those numbers go up when you consider that you dont need to put them in systems with major fleets, worthless systems with a few dozen people, Rich systems that have thier own fleets, and independents like the Sword worlds. It would seem that 20000 scouts should be able to chase down a few pirates.

 

[zozotroll]

Another point that always comes up is that space is big. While true, you dont need to cover the whole thing. You only need to cover the vecters that arriveing or departing merchants will be on. And those are limited. Most systems have 2-4. A few get more. Glisten has 10. Still given the numbers of ships that should be avalable, there should be no problem covering those numbers.

Remeber, the defense does not have to kill the pirate, only hurt it enough, or just threaten to, that it is not worth its trouble to hit that system.

And, after you put enough ships to cover the vecters, and count out repair, crew leave and other things to do with ships, you still have plenty to go on sweeps to every parsec on a subsecter map. In fact you can sweep them every 2 months or so. Not very long to put in a base of any kind. If you consider blank parsecs to be just that, places that dont have a fuel source, then you can even patrol the outer system.

 

[hdrider67]

Another point that always comes up is that space is big. While true, you dont need to cover the whole thing. You only need to cover the vecters that arriveing or departing merchants will be on. And those are limited. Most systems have 2-4. A few get more. Glisten has 10. Still given the numbers of ships that should be avalable, there should be no problem covering those numbers.

Remeber, the defense does not have to kill the pirate, only hurt it enough, or just threaten to, that it is not worth its trouble to hit that system.

And, after you put enough ships to cover the vecters, and count out repair, crew leave and other things to do with ships, you still have plenty to go on sweeps to every parsec on a subsecter map. In fact you can sweep them every 2 months or so. Not very long to put in a base of any kind. If you consider blank parsecs to be just that, places that dont have a fuel source, then you can even patrol the outer system.

I agree that the vectors themselves might be limited but these vectors can well be thousands of km in radius and hundreds of thousands of miles long. MRQ has the sensors fairly restricted so patrolling them might be problematic.

In fact, a pirate who does his homework would benefit by the approach vectors. If he paid attention to the deployment of system ships and he knew of the departure times and destinations of merchies, it'd be a simple matter to wait for them, powered down.

Better yet, if he left port a few days early and went to the destination system (he'd know where the merchies were going simply by finding out what shipment destinations they were accepting) and lie doggo for the merchie.

All of this assumes a fairly smart pirate. Pirates are not necessarily smart. They're crooks of the worst kind and attacking a ship in a well traveled space lane might not stop them. The patrol boats that show up might but thinking of that ahead of time isn't always going to be a criminal's priority.

Remember, many robbers are pretty stupid.

 

[spinwardpirate]

I just used this in the Deckplans aka Pirates thread. Flavor text from Traders and Gunboats regarding the Gazelle.

An important aspect of the ship is its interior layout; the ship was designed at a time when mutinies were a major threat to security. As a result, major bulkheads break up the ship into distinct areas — some for crew members, some for officers, and some common to both.

Thus, at one time mutinies were common, mutinies based on class. The class struggle goes hand-in-hand with piracy. Recall your Terran history, a quote from Sam Bellamy (or repeating a quote attributed to Bellamy by Capt. Charles Johnson):

"D--n my bl--d... I scorn to do any one a Mischief, when it is not for my Advantage... Tho', d--n ye, you are a sneaking Puppy, and so are all those who will submit to be governed by Laws which rich Men have made for their own Security, for the cowardly Whelps have not the Courage otherwise to defend what they get by their Knavery; but d--n ye altogether: D--n them for a Pack of crafty Rascals, and you, who serve them, for a Parcel of hen-hearted Numskulls. They vilify us, the Scoundrels do, when there is only this Difference, they rob the Poor under the cover of Law, forsooth, and we plunder the Rich under Protection of our own Courage; had you not better make One of us, than sneak after the A---s of those Villains for Employment?..."

"I am a free Prince, and I have as much Authority to make War on the whole World, as he who has a hundred Sail of Ships at Sea and an Army of 100,000 Men in the Field; and this my Conscience tells me; but there is no arguing with such snivelling Puppies, who allow Superiors to kick them about Deck at Pleasure; and pin their faith upon a Pimp of a Parson; a Squab, who neither neither practices nor believes what he puts upon the chuckle-headed Fools he preaches to."

 

[zozotroll]

"I agree that the vectors themselves might be limited but these vectors can well be thousands of km in radius and hundreds of thousands of miles long. MRQ has the sensors fairly restricted so patrolling them might be problematic. "

Last I checked MRQ uses the mark one eyeball, and possibly a few detect spellls. Certainly lim ited in range. :lol:

And you are correct. very minor differences in drives will result in comeing in quite a ways apart. And the patrol craft cant be everywhere.

But they dont need to be. If they hang out at say D75, they have a good chance to get a few shots at pirates inbound or outbound. Over time, they will get in some good licks. The defense only needs to get it right once, the pirate needs to get it right every time.

As for stu[pidity, I have no trouble with that. It is a main reason why piratres sometimes bother PCs. they are new and have not gotten whacked yet. My problem is the wide spread and persistant pirates. I just dont see how they can exist in the late 3I. At other times yes, of coursae they can. Which is why if my players want to be pirates, I am careful about when the game is set.

 

[PFVA63]

Hi,

Today while scanning the internet for news during lunch at work, I noticed a couple articles on modern day piracy at the MarineLog.com website. One article was about a recent attack on a Cattle Carrier off the Phillipines and the other was about a RAND Corporation study on Piracy and Terrorism (with a link to the full 81 page report). They were both interesting and I thought I'd pass the info along to anyone who might be interested.

While on the topic of piracy in Traveller, I guess one thing that needs to be considered would be systems where a main fueling spot may not be the same as the main population center, which could lead to the need for a lot of in system travel.

For instance, if you take our Solar system but assume that the Earth is more like Mars (with alot less water). In such a system you could still have a large settlement and starport on Earth, but it would probably be likley that most fuel would come from Jupiter or Saturn etc. As such you might have alot of travel through the system going from Earth to the outer gas giants, which would have to pass through the asteroid belt. It might be possible that this would be a setting where piracy could maybe be an issue, depending how you view your Traveller Universe.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Regards

PF

 

[JimG]

As keeps getting mentioned, space is big. 100D is a huge voume of space. So high speed out there is a danger to no one except pirates, and the apperently nonexistant patrol. As for enemys, of course they are going to come in even faster. Why not? Is there some intergalactic speed limit?

The points you are bringing up in this thread are good. For me the question is less:
"How can pirates work in the canon/OTU?"
and more:
"What changes do I need to make IMTU to make piracy work?"

One thing I've thought of using - and I have no idea how this difers from canon - is that jump travel is imprecise. When you emerge from jump space, there is no guarantee that your current vector is even close to an approach vector for the world you are trying to reach. Coming in at high velocity may not be "dangerous" but it would be inefficient. If you did come in at a high velocity, and your vector was off - you might be even more vulnerable as you have to take the time to correct your course giving pirates (or other hostiles) a better chance to plot an intercept course.

Another point about the imprecise jumping; you might come in well outside of the 100D volume.

Assuming that pirates only need occasional scores to keep operating, they can wait until a ship comes in that looks like an easy target.

From what I've read modern pirates often rely on inside men. In one case, a shipping executive hired pirates to attack his ship. He was supposed to get a percentage of the pirates profits and collect insurance money. This guy got caught because the pirates made some mistakes, but that sort of thing is apparently not that rare. IMTU, this might work or the pirates might bribe a crewmember for information or assistance.

The only way to prevent that, is to patrol the border systems where a hostile fleet to prepare a jump to a major system. And patroling those systems is also likely to catch silly buggers trying to set up a pirate base.

Assuming that the patrol can identify it as a pirate base... a remote mining or refueling base might double as a pirate base and have a legitimate need for repair facilities...

 

[towerwarlock]

OK, I will admit each of you has a point for and against piracy. Now here is something to consider:
During the Official History of the Traveller universe and the Third Imperium, there have been numerous civil wars (Megatraveller and the Rebellion case in point), numerous border wars with thier neighbors, and such. These are good times for pirates because the Navy is already beating the crap out of and being beat the crap out of. Also, what is to stop a naval captain from taking his warship out and hunting merchantmen? Nothing! Also most of you are thinking that free traders are the backbone of the commerce. They are not. The major freightlines use massive freighters to do most of the shipping. Free Traders and independents only are picking up what is left over. Unless you are dumb enough to think that the little cargos on the trade charts are actually what a single planet produces. That amount of cargo is less than what is produced by a major city in the US in a single day. Also, if a pirate is smart, he will hit and take several scouts in areas away from where he operates to draw attention away from him. Also good areas to hit merchantmen and free traders is at the gas giants, far from where the system defenses are, while they are refueling. The nature of the radiation and such near gas giants like Jupiter and such make getting signals out difficult. Also, if you hit their engines, crippling them while they are refueling, and jam their radios, no one will be the wiser.

 

[rje]

Tower, good point about war being a classic pretext for piracy.

Also most of you are thinking that free traders are the backbone of the commerce. They are not. The major freightlines use massive freighters to do most of the shipping. Free Traders and independents only are picking up what is left over.

Quite right. The Megacorps are the backbone of commerce. The Imperium protects those routes vigorously... and so do the megacorps for that matter. It's the little guy always gets the worst deal.

Also good areas to hit merchantmen and free traders is at the gas giants, far from where the system defenses are, while they are refueling.

True. This is why armed escorts (if your convoy has any) are placed in the "High Guard" position -- to protect ships skimming through a GG's outer atmo. Once again, the little guy gets the raw deal.

To expand on an earlier point: pirates only need to capture one ship's boat to make money. The profit from fencing one of those (assuming IYTU that ship's boats aren't as closely tagged and identified as starships) can generously cover expenses for a year or more.

 

[towerwarlock]

As for the pirate who says he can't be waiting deeper inside the gas giant waiting. Cripple the engines of the target, wait for it to drop, board and plunder. Or capture and keep then escape out the other side of the gas giant when no one is looking.

 

[rje]

As for the pirate who says he can't be waiting deeper inside the gas giant waiting. Cripple the engines of the target, wait for it to drop, board and plunder. Or capture and keep then escape out the other side of the gas giant when no one is looking.

Yes, that's how I'd do it. And those lone free traders are far tastier than a megacorporate freighter full of priceless art, with a Gazelle close escort armed with particle accelerators guarding it. Hate to have my power plant disabled when I'm in the clutches of a gas giant...

 

[StephenT]

A point to remember: for most of history, there was no such thing as a full-time pirate. Any merchant ship would be willing to turn to piracy, if they met a smaller and less well-armed ship out of sight of any government patrols... As long as the merchants confined their raiding to the vessels of other countries, their own government would generally turn a blind eye when they showed up in port with battle damage and twice as much cargo as when they left...

 

[zozotroll]

Gas giant refuel takes to long to get there. Freetraders probably wont make mortgage payments if they are going that route. Cargo turn around takes to long.

Iam very aware of how small FTs are, but that is what most PCs fly/prey on. So yes the megacorps carry more trade, but they have little to do with my game.

JimG, I agree totaly. That is why I do this, to find workable ideas to make piracy doable, cuz what is space opera without pirates? Besides inaccurate vector, you can also have some sort of hyperspace friction, so that you come out at zero vecter.

 

[Zowy]

Jump flash can be used to spot ships entering and leaveing Jump space. But you need to have good sensors and have them pointed in the right direction.

If you are close enough and know the size of a ship, you can tell how far it Jumped. By the strenght of the Jump Flash. But not the direction, as entry directing has little to due with direction of Jump..

Unless you are in a convoy, where -all- the ships are useing the same Jump caculations. Ships are going to be spread out depending on how long they are in Jump space. So following someone is not going to get you much.

 

[aspqrz]

there have been numerous civil wars (Megatraveller and the Rebellion case in point), numerous border wars with thier neighbors, and such. These are good times for pirates

Technically speaking, most of this will not be Piracy. In fact, very little of it will be.

It will be privateering or commerce raiding which is entirely, legally and practically, different.

Is there anyone out there who needs the differences explained to them?

Phil

Author, Space Opera (FGU); RBB #1 (FASA); Road to Armageddon;
Farm, Forge and Steam; Orbis Mundi; Displaced (PGD)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: aspqrz@pacific.net.au

 

[Talon Brightmane]

Commerce Raiding typically is the use of disguised military vessels to destroy the assests and supplies of an opponent during time of war. The actions of privateers can be considered to be a form of commerce raiding.

Priracy is little more than robbery that is done without the commission of a soverign nation. In a broad sense, and as defines by the UN Convention on the Laws of the Seas, piracy includes violence, detention, and depredation caused by a private vessel against vessels or individuals outside the jurisdiction of any state.

Privateers are "legal pirates," individuals given a letter of margue to attack foreign shipping. Privateers are allowed to operate only during wartime and were to be treated as POWs if captured. Historically, some did choose to operate during peacetime or target neutral vessels, which blurred the lines between privateers and pirates and led many to being declaired pirates.