High Guard Playtest - Winding Up

[phavoc]

I find it kind of funny the arguments about splitting up the books, or the page counts making the book too expensive.

If other publishers can put out 400pg core rule books, hardback with high gloss paper, amply illustrated, and at the same price point, it's not a question of whether or not people will buy it. The market already shows that this is happening today.

Traveller has a core fan base, but one that I haven't seen really grow over time. You have a few coming, and probably just as many leaving. I had high hopes that T5 might really ignite things, but alas it seems to have done more harm than good. Only time will tell in v2 of MGT does anything to the market or if people just go out and buy to add to their collections.

 

[simonh]

If other publishers can put out 400pg core rule books, hardback with high gloss paper, amply illustrated, and at the same price point, it's not a question of whether or not people will buy it. The market already shows that this is happening today.

So you're saying that all RPGs could be published to this standard at the same price point? They would all be financially viable?

I don't think the economics of publishing work that way.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Condottiere]

Probably like video quality, there will come a time that a consumer can have the precise quality individually published on demand as his interest and budget allows.

 

[phavoc]

So you're saying that all RPGs could be published to this standard at the same price point? They would all be financially viable?

I don't think the economics of publishing work that way.

Simon Hibbs

Didn't say that at all. What I said was that other publishers manage just fine to put out large hard-back source books with sometimes double the page count for the same or similar price. I'm paying $40 for the 200 page count hardback Traveller source books at my local game store. The price point seem to be $40-$60 for these books. The soft covers run $30. Obviously there are many price points for products out there. A simple review of a game store or even DTRPG would show that.

The point I made was that other publishers seem to be able to give consumers a hefty page count for similar price points. Obviously the decision on pricing is up to the publisher.

And there ya go, there's my point(s).

 

[nats]

I would argue that its all about quality over quantity. I would much rather have a few pages of a really well thought out rules system and the rest good interesting creative flavour, good characters, interesting exciting adventures, creatures, imaginative ships, etc to make a reasonable introductory rulebook, than pages and pages of waffle that adds nothing much at all.

Several of the v1 Mongoose books were complete trash to be frank. I wouldn't buy them for 10p. The v2 stuff better be much improved. If they have missed major things again like animal size and speeds, or commissioned more books from people who cant even string together a decent coherent sentence .... I will be rather annoyed.

 

[simonh]

Didn't say that at all. What I said was that other publishers manage just fine to put out large hard-back source books with sometimes double the page count for the same or similar price.

Different games have different markets - both in the size of that market and what they're willing to pay for. If you can confidently expect sales in the 10,000 range in the launch year of a product, you can do a lot more than if you have sales expectations of 5,000.

For better or worse, Traveller has a very narrow if stable niche in the market. It's never going to be like Pathfinder, but equally it's always going to sell in fairly stable numbers if the product matches the market. But if you upgraded the rulebook to full colour glossy and double the page count, how much would that actually boost sales? It might have to double the sales to be worth doing, but if it only increased sales 50% you might end up swallowing a loss due to the increased costs.

Saying a fancier product increases costs but also increases sales so everything is OK doesn't cut it. The amount it increases costs and how much it increases sales are critical. Plenty of projects have failed because they got this formula wrong.

Simon Hibbs

 

[phavoc]

Different games have different markets - both in the size of that market and what they're willing to pay for. If you can confidently expect sales in the 10,000 range in the launch year of a product, you can do a lot more than if you have sales expectations of 5,000.

For better or worse, Traveller has a very narrow if stable niche in the market. It's never going to be like Pathfinder, but equally it's always going to sell in fairly stable numbers if the product matches the market. But if you upgraded the rulebook to full colour glossy and double the page count, how much would that actually boost sales? It might have to double the sales to be worth doing, but if it only increased sales 50% you might end up swallowing a loss due to the increased costs.

Saying a fancier product increases costs but also increases sales so everything is OK doesn't cut it. The amount it increases costs and how much it increases sales are critical. Plenty of projects have failed because they got this formula wrong.

Simon Hibbs

By that same token, if you have a stable niche market, those people who purchase the product regardless do it not because of the price point (as long as it's within reason), but because they support that particular gaming system.

I have never argued the changing of the publication would increase sales. I argued that the existing player base deserved better BECAUSE they are supporting the game system.