Help with Soldier development

Grunk

Mongoose
Hi all,
I play a Soldier who's just made level 3 (*ding*ed 3 at the end of last adventure so im not commited to anything yet).

My primary role (currently) in the group is to facilitate others damage through the Disarm feat and so forcing other into provoking attacks of opertunity for our super-strong Barbarian, tankish Soldier and backstabbing Thief.

Its working really well right now, being such as a low level every one round my disarmed target is getting a free attack ... which to us low levelers is like getting DOUBLE the amounts of attacks per round it also totaly nerfs a foes damage output so its a double boon.

My (quite nice) stats fell like this:
Str: 8 <------ DAMN!
Dex: 16
Con: 16
Int: 13
Wiz: 14
Cha: 6 <------ Double DAMN!

Im using:
Finessed War Sword (2 handed)
Mail Hauberk (i thing thats whats its called its +6DR)
Visored Helm

My current feats are:
Combat Expertese
Improved Disarm
Dodge

My parry is a pitiful: 10
My Dodge is an OK: 15 that upps to 18 when i use Combat Exp fully
And my Damage Reduction is 8.

Upto level 2 i was doing well by using combat exp' to gain +2 defence and still having +11 to disarm (+4 for using 2 handed weapon, +4 from feat, + 2 base attack +3 dex - 2 combat exp' penalty).

So my question is where should i go at level 3?
I have contemplated staying soldier so i can get more feats like Improved Trip & Combat relexes.
Or going Theif for the sneak attack and skills that will benefit from my high dex and reasonable int.

Any advice on skills, feats and carrer paths would be great.

Cheers.
 
Grunk said:
Hi all, ...

My (quite nice) stats fell like this:
Str: 8 <------ DAMN!
Dex: 16
Con: 16
Int: 13
Wiz: 14
Cha: 6 <------ Double DAMN!


Cheers.

Why are your STR and CHA so low?
In my house rules, I don't allow PC's to have an ability score (esp. STR) lower than 10 (if male), or 8 if female.
If I feel generous, I will allow them to assign an automatic 18 to one ability, a 17 to another, while insisting that the remainder are rolled, discarding anything lower than 10.
 
I don't see a problem with low ability scores... I'm just curious why with such a low strenght you opted to play a soldier. As for feats... taking Endurance and working along that chain of feats might not be a bad idea. Otherwise, you might want to look at taking Improved Initiative.
If you are going to multiclass at this point, you've got pretty good scores for a thief, and sneak attack damage is nothign to sneeze at.
 
The low stats are because we used the "place em' where they fall" D&D stat rolling varient. (i.e your 1st roll is str, 2nd roll dex, etc)

Im a soldier becuase I started off a slave and learnt how to fight by scrapping with town guards, captors. etc whos fighting style was more soldier than barbarian... with a charisma that low you dotn tend to be able to talk your way out of a scuffle ;) .

Also this game allows you to finesse without a feat so it seemed rigged to give high dex fighters as much chance as high str ones.

Though after having played i see that the whole melee side of the game is grotesqly unbalanced towards high Str scores... High Str gives your good parry, parry scales faster than dodge, sheilds add to parry, str gives you damage, etc, etc so the high str character is king.
Where as in D&D the high dex/low str fighter gains in defence what he looses in damage.. in conan the high str melee'er gets 2 bites of the cherry thanks to parry.

I have the highest dex in the group and the 2nd worst defence :( becuase parry is so easily increased compared to dodge (or at least thats how the GM is making it seem)

So i basicly would like some advice to make the best of my characters situation.
 
The reason why it seems so unbalanced is because the soldier relies on parry rather than dex. If you were playing a different character, your dodge could be scaling higher than your parry and would feed into your defense, and you'd be less reliant on your dodge.

I still think you shoudl switch into thief. Sure, you have a low charisma, so you won't be getting the high bluff or gather information scores, but the trade offs are enough to warrant them I think. 'Course, you are sacrificing your base to hit, but if you avoid the stand-up fights you shoudl be okay.
 
Take your next levels in Thief and get Improved Feint to get more often Sneak Attacks. One of my PCs is a Soldier / Thief using this combo and is very happy.
 
Grunk said:
Any advice on skills, feats and carrer paths would be great.

Cheers.

1) Multiclass into something with a better Dodge progression. The high soldier Parry Progression is of no help to you. I would suggest borderer, barbarian or thief. Thief is good - since you are already finessing the weapons, you may as well get a sneak attack bonus to offset the strength penalty to damage.

2) Use ranged weapons, not a war sword. I would suggest a crossbow of some sort. This also offsets the Strength penalty to damage.

3) Stop going up in soldier. This bears repeating. Not only is your Strength screwing up your melee combat, your moderate Intelligence can give your character an edge in skills IF you go into another class.

4) Why on earth did you choose such a background with those statistics? If he grew up fighting soldiers, he would have naturally developed a better strength. The statistics you show demonstrate a person who grew up evading fights! (high dex means he is good at dodging, low charisma means he does not stand out in a crowd or draw attention to himself). I have a hard time reconciling those stats with your background and class choice. The low strength, low charisma says to me that he never learned to stand up for himself. Those are thief stats. He gets his revenge covertly - and probably grew up that way. He avoided direct conflict, I would think. He obviously has no skill at defending himself through parrying or attacking. I just don't see this guy growing up sparring with soldiers. He is too smart (13 Int) - he would have found another way - and it would not have been through a war sword. He would have learned to sneak, steal and attack at range.

As a slave, I doubt his owner would allow him to learn to fight. If he was fighting guards and such, he probably would not have fought them face-to-face - he would have been killed or put to death with those statistics. Why would the slave fight the guards on equal terms? He would not have equal arms. He would have learned to fight them on unequal terms - which is what a thief does.

What nation enslaved him?

You should ask your GM if you can retrofit the character, since the class and background do not fit the stats at all.

Even if you don't or can't do that, stop taking levels in soldier.
 
Thanks guys.

Although my gal' tango'd with guards, etc it often ended up in her getting beat up badly (high con from having to survive) or her running away (high dex) but it certainly lead to an amount of combat ... and after all if finessing is an option why could one not learn dex based combat rather then raw strength based combat through constant conflict???
She ended up getting beat up during a couple of escapes and dragged back to the slave market by unscrouplous gaurds looking to make some quick cash before the party thief decided to buy her.

I do use a crossbow to start combat, but Im tough enough and just about hard enough to hit with good enough armour to stand in the middle of combat and disarm attackers ( a tactic that facilitated her escapes on a couple of ocasions).

My X-Bow does 2d6. BUT if i disarm a foe and cause him to provoke an attack from all the other group mates i forgo the 2d6 i could have done with a cross bow... but the rest of the group gets another attack doing an average of 25 - 30 damage if they all hit AND I reduce the damage potential of my target hopefully to the point where he can no longer do serious damage through his targets armour.
Also disarming is easier than hitting if you use the feat and a 2 handed weapon.

Right now this is a far greater effect than shooting a 2d6 bolt at any one.

Thanks for the advice guys, seeing as im disarming at +13 right now if i dont use expertease i dont think the base attack bonus from going thief would cripple me that much.

What about a good level 3 feat? If im going theif i was thinking improved initative so i can:
Sneak up and suprise a foe: Disarm, AoO Sneak Attack
Round 1: Win initative, Sneak Attack, AoO Sneak Attack
 
Grunk said:
Thanks guys.

Although my gal' tango'd with guards, etc it often ended up in her getting beat up badly (high con from having to survive) or her running away (high dex) but it certainly lead to an amount of combat ... and after all if finessing is an option why could one not learn dex based combat rather then raw strength based combat through constant conflict???

You can still finesse & disarm as a thief. I am not sure how this scenerio would have produced a soldier - how is a slave getting into constant combat unless she is a gladiator? Few people would buy a slave who has a history of fighting. Of course, I do equate soldiery with training and discipline. Plus, you would have better skills and sneak attack.

Anyway, Hyboria's Finest has some advice on advancing a High Dex soldier.

Improved Initiative is always good for a fighting thief.
 
Like Vincent said, the best thing for you might be to ask your GM to reality shift your character. Even if this isn't an option, you might still be able to "save" your character.

Hyboria is a harsh world, and I think you need some kind of focus in combat. Granted, being an expert at disarming is a kind of focus, but it's very unreliable. Since your Str is terrible, you need to use unconventional means to disable your enemies. You should use a staff when disarming, as it has reach. The lessened damage potential doesn't mean much, since you shouldn't be hitting people for damage most of the time anyway :). You might want to consider 1 level of barbarian, to get the bonus feat and other abilities, but other than that you should mainly consider the classes I've listed below. The skills and feats you choose should complement your choice of class, so it's hard to suggest anything without knowing what classes you will take.

1. Like the others have said, thief levels and sneak attack is a good way to increase your damage to acceptable levels. You'll also have access to lots of useful skills. One problem is that you will probably be weaker than the other thief in your group.

2. It might seem strange to suggest sorcerer levels for someone with MAB -2 and the ability to wear heavy armour, but you have a decent Wis, and several sorcery styles are completely or almost completely independent of MAB. Also, several styles concentrate on spells that are mainly cast outside of combat, when you don't really need to wear armor. And some styles mainly require skill ranks, which will allow you to take the spells at the same character level that a singleclass scholar could. Some example styles that have one or more of these benefits: Counterspells, Divination, Nature Magic, Oriental Magic, Prestidigitation, Sea Witchery, and Weather Witching. Many of the spells in these styles won't help you in combat, but scholar levels will also give you lots of skills and the very powerful Defensive Blast, which isn't hurt all that much by a low MAB and can be used while wearing armour.

3. Hyboria's Finest has a soldier/pirate multiclass option called the Sea Hawk. The Sea Hawk has an obscenely powerful ability called Insulting that can be taken upon gaining your 3rd level of pirate. It's based on Intimidate, but even with your terrible Cha it will still be good, and if you can convince your GM to use the optional Intimidate rules in Hyboria's Fiercest (I think) you'll be a force to be reckoned with. And after your 3rd pirate level you are free to take thief or scholar levels for the rest of your career.
 
I will have to insist my female PC's use expertease in the future! :lol: :wink: That way they will get what they want with little effort.
 
Soldiers with crappy strength is very historical - it's called indoctrination! (lol)

At any rate, I agree with taking thief at 3rd level, but only if you want to start min-maxing and getting a better statistical warrior out of the character. It will take the greatest advantage of your ability to Finesse, adding a nasty amount of sneak attack damage to the character.

Story wise, I could see her becoming a borderer, leaving her homelands and learning the wilderness. They have equal Dodge and Parry progression and can amount a ferocious number of attacks if you choose the melee combat style at lvl4 (SOL2/BAR2).

I could also see her coming into the saddle and becoming a Nomad. Her people aren't normally like this, but she's learned to live hard and by her wits at this point. Plus, that would get you a feat for 3rd and another at 4th, regardless of whether you take another level of soldier or nomad. Also, there's free mobility at NOM5. If you've picked that up as one of you freebie feats already, it becomes Improved Mobility (never provoking AoOs) and eventually Greater Mobility (full move as part of a full attack action). Nomads get quick.

Combat Reflexes is a good feat to take with a decent DEX bonus. If you take thief, go with Improved Feint and lots of points on Bluff. This route, however, will put all your eggs in that basket. Improved trip isn't a bad idea, but it is a STR test and even at +4 with that feat, you'd be hard pressed to win frequently. Improved Initiative will allow you to get the drop on enemies more often, so that's a good choice with a high DEX and an intent to Finesse. Two-weapon combat proficiency isn't a bad idea no matter which way you go.
 
Raven Blackwell said:
Yogah of Yag said:
I will have to insist my female PC's use expertease in the future! :lol: :wink: That way they will get what they want with little effort.

Head hurts- must smite......8)

Verbum sapientibus: invest a few more ranks in the Spellcheck skill! :wink: :D
 
Grunk said:
Also this game allows you to finesse without a feat so it seemed rigged to give high dex fighters as much chance as high str ones.

Though after having played i see that the whole melee side of the game is grotesqly unbalanced towards high Str scores... High Str gives your good parry, parry scales faster than dodge, sheilds add to parry, str gives you damage, etc, etc so the high str character is king.
Yeah, Str is overall more useful than Dex in combat. I think thats fine, though, since Dex has a lot of other uses that Str doesn't (lots of Dex-based skills, Reflex save, Initiative etc.).
It's still possible to create a combat-oriented character that relies almost exclusively on Dex, though, but Soldier isn't the class for it. Thieves and Pirates, who have sneak attack, can much more easily get away with dealing a rather low base damage.

On another note, I'm having a little trouble liking this whole disarm-tactic that your character seems to be relying almost exlusively on.
Personally, I like my Conan characters to be as versatile as possible, and therefore I usually pick a variety of pretty different feats. For example, a Soldier might get Power Attack for when he's up against tough opponents, Combat Expertise for when he's in trouble and needs to be more defensive, Brawl for when he's caught unarmed etc. etc.
Of course, it can also be cool to be more focused than that (for example, the two-handed fighter who gets Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave and so forth), but "disarm-'em-so-others-can-wack-'em" is in my eyes extremely focused, almost to the point of being absurd. I just don't think its very Conanesque.
And sorry for bad-mouthing your character like this, its not at all meant to be unfriendly. Just take it as advice or, if you prefer, the mad ramblings of a lunatic. :D

As for what your next step for your character should be, I agree with what others have said and recommend multiclassing into Thief. Those stats could make a pretty good Thief, but will never really work well for a Soldier. For feat selection, probably Improved Initiative or maybe Improved Feint.
 
And don't forget- natural weapons can't be disarmed. Claw/claw/bite- or gods help you with that low STR with the Improved Grab/Constrict combo- will bring you down. And natural armor as far as know can't be finessed. [Rule check on that please?] So you character might be great at one-on-one with human opponents in tests of skill but not good with the more rough and tumble combat common to Hyboria. And we all know how GMs like to hit players with their weaknesses....
 
That IS a good point. I believe alot of that comes from D20. Seems like so many D20 gamers design characters with a "gimmick". I keep trying to tell my players that in Conan, it's best to make a well rounded character, and not go for the gimmick.
As for Disarm, I don't think it's a bad idea, I just wouldn't design the guy to rely on others to finish off an enemy. Eventually you are gonna go toe-to-toe with someone, and you better be able to handle any situation. That's why i tell my players that the "unarmed" feats can be very useful (ok, you wake up in a jail cell...).
 
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