Help with Soldier development

[Sutek]

I don't think the "natural armor cannot be finessed" point is actually stated anywhere, but (A) I wouldn't think you could and (B) I could be wrong about both, but disallowing it seem the right course.

:wink:

 

[urdinaran]

I think you could bypass natural armor, really depends on the creature though. Getting underneath scales, let's say, or to a creature's underbelly. Add on the fact it will probably have reach, and bypassing it's natural armor becomes a bit more difficult.

just my $.02

 

[Trodax]

I'm pretty sure that natural armour functions the same way as regular armour with regards to finesse and AP. Don't have my books handy, so I can't check what they say, but at least thats how I play it. :wink:

Besides, finessing through natural armour could be seen as stabbing between scales, whamming them in the eye or going for the balls, so I don't really have a problem with it realistically.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

I don't know- theres a lot more gaps in armor worn about the body than armor that's part of it. Where precisely is the 'chink' to exploit in a set of scales? Plus what about that supernatural DR that Outsiders have? I'd imagine that'd cover all parts of the body.

 

[Sutek]

Eyes...erm...private bits.

On the whole though, I'd say natural armor has no real "weak areas" as it's usually in the form of thick hide or big shell. Finese is a rule intended to stick at spots between gaps in armor, and I just think that the purpose of natural armor is to not have gaps for taking advantage of.

Now someone can bring up Smaug...

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Now someone can bring up Smaug...

Actually Smaug's 'weak spot' wasn't in his natural armor- it was a gap in the the 'armor' made of the gold and other metal from his lair that he 'wore'. The Black Arrow of Erebor- bring a Bane Weapon against dragons no doubt- pentrated Smaug's natural armor quite well, but could have possibly been foiled by the golden armor Smaug wore- making that Called Shot of Bard's rather important.

God and Goddess I am such a geek...8)

 

[Sutek]

Bane weapon against dragons and Smaug had the weak spot built into his natural armor.

I opened that door because I had the answer already.

Now who's the geek...lol

 

[Raven Blackwell]

I stand humbled- thou art the greater geek.....

Now sing Bilbo's farwell song for us- please? 8)

 

[Trodax]

Finese is a rule intended to stick at spots between gaps in armor, and I just think that the purpose of natural armor is to not have gaps for taking advantage of.

Well, isn't that the purpose of man-made armour also? Who said evolution was more effective than the craftiness of mankind? :wink:

Anyway, here is a quote from the rules that says natural armour is treated just like normal armour:

Certain creatures have an innate Damage Reduction due to their thick skin, scales or unnatural flesh. This is treated as if it were armour with regard to penetration in all respects unless specifically noted in the creature's statistics.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Well, isn't that the purpose of man-made armour also? Who said evolution was more effective than the craftiness of mankind? :wink:

Me- Nature is far more effceint than us bumbling monkeys and in the end She will bury mankind back into the topsoil. That's why I am shaman- I want to work with the best. 8)

 

[Sutek]

GRRRR>>>

Your self-referencialism irritates the crap outa me...

...but yet I agree with you that nature is cleverer than we humans are!

I don't know whether to be annoyed or join your side. This must be what Anikin went through...lol.

Seriously though, we have figured out some really hard substances to make armor tougher than anything found naturally occuring, but we got the friggin idea from nature - we started with hides, because that's what worked for bison, and went from there to crab-like suits, and so on.

I guess what I'd say (as a house rule) is that nutuiral armor is a bit better than man made, particularly in the Hyborian world, and the creature gets to use both it's parry defense and dodge defense versus finesse attacks.

That's off the cuff, so it may not work well, but I don't think natural armor should be as vulnerable to the same types of attacks as man-made...even though the rules say it is.

 

[Trodax]

I guess what I'd say (as a house rule) is that nutuiral armor is a bit better than man made, particularly in the Hyborian world, and the creature gets to use both it's parry defense and dodge defense versus finesse attacks.

Thats how it is normally, though; Parry and Dodge can both be used against finesse without restriction.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

GRRRR>>>

Your self-referencialism irritates the crap outa me...

...but yet I agree with you that nature is cleverer than we humans are!

I get that a lot- "She's arrogant, cruel, crazy, sexist, self-centered, refuses to play by any rules but her own and possibly evil- but she's right, damn her!" 8)

I don't know whether to be annoyed or join your side. This must be what Anikin went through...lol.

As one writer once put it The Dark Side has better parties. Also since it was my magic that helped you ride out Hurricane Rita without trouble I wouldn't knock it. If you still newed it I'm even willing to cast that prosperity spell for that new job you wanted- if you ask very, very nicely. 8)

Seriously though, we have figured out some really hard substances to make armor tougher than anything found naturally occuring, but we got the friggin idea from nature - we started with hides, because that's what worked for bison, and went from there to crab-like suits, and so on.

And were still doing it. From biochemistry to genetic manipulation to futuristic armor designs the best stuff is still being based on natural forms. We're just not as good at it.