Good in MRQ

[Balbinus]

Rurik, what about a dagger to the chest or abdomen? Can that not kill someone?

Again, on the yank it can. A character with with no damage Bonus can do up to 10 points on an impale if the target has no armor). A character would need a Con+Siz of 41+ to have 11HP in the chest. And actually, if you fail to dislodge the dagger a couple times you would do another d4 per failed attempt.

So possible, yes. Really the big change is that there is no ignore armor because the 20%/5% Special result/Critical result has been replaced by a 10% result somewhere in the middle.

Thanks again.

I have to say, I really like the new impalement rules, very evocative and much more interesting than the old ones.

 

[iamtim]

I think what Rurik was pointing out was that an impale can be stopped by armor now. In RQ2 or 3 an implae was guaranteed to either ignore or puhcn through the armor with sheer damage points.

What, no kudos for the idea of an ambush by flaming arrow launching chaos centipedes?

Sheesh.

 

[iamtim]

I know you like to think we should just ignore these things "because they never will come up during play" but in this case I have to disagree. I think a character may well crit against plate during the course of play, and so think this a valid concern with the rules.

No, I think that one will come up often.

But the feeling I'm getting from a lot of these posts is one of reading the rules (not playing the game), finding something you (and I don't mean you, Rurik, specifically; that's the generic "you") don't like, throwing your hands up in the air and crying that the system is broken, and waiting for an official answer from Matt.

I don't game like that. Never have, and I never will. From my earliest days with RQ3 and 1E AD&D, I've known that not all circumstances will be covered, and the way that other circumstances are covered may not jive with how I'd prefer them be covered because the game designer(s) and I are different people.

Mongoose RuneQuest is not perfect. It's far from it. But neither is d20, or GURPS, or RQ1/2/3, or Fudge, or Tri-Stat, or HeroQuest, or any other game system out there. And rather condemn Mongoose RuneQuest because it has some issues like every other game, I'd rather embrace it, PLAY IT, and have my fun with it.

RuneQuest is back, and for that I am grateful. It may not be your Daddy's RQ, but it's RQ nonetheless.

 

[atgxtg]

I think what Rurik was pointing out was that an impale can be stopped by armor now. In RQ2 or 3 an implae was guaranteed to either ignore or puhcn through the armor with sheer damage points.

What, no kudos for the idea of an ambush by flaming arrow launching chaos centipedes?

Sheesh.

You want praise for an ambush from a Humakti?

 

[iamtim]

You want praise for an ambush from a Humakti?

HAH!

 

[atgxtg]

You want praise for an ambush from a Humakti?

HAH!

How 'bout, "Clever of him to make me use up my Sever Spirit in the first round."

 

[Itto]

Or does a crit with a dagger against plate or chain just mean the attack bounces off and does no damage?

I know you like to think we should just ignore these things "because they never will come up during play" but in this case I have to disagree. I think a character may well crit against plate during the course of play, and so think this a valid concern with the rules.

If you are using a dagger against someone in plate, you are doomed, unless your skillfull! The precise rules means that if you are Siro the Water Dancer you can take out the guy in plate this time round. Crits are more about luck, of course the better you are the luckier you become but thats life.

In previous editions you would be even more doomed trying to take on a guy in plate, having to always rely on getting special. The new rules alow you develop characters who do not have to have bloody big weapons to take out the oponent, but they certainly help.

 

[andakitty]

Well, rurik and iamtim, I would love to play the game as is, but unfortunately time and resources for gaming are limited these days. MRQ deserves every chance, but I have a thriving game of CoC and an upcoming Tekumel BRP game, and it is my judgement, right or wrong, that the systems I have in place will serve just fine without playtesting with a game that has some perceived weaknesses I don't have time to deal with. That's just the way it is. I will use parts of MRQ and support the line with bucks (reading material) but I feel better served with the games I am already using. I like some of the older BRP rules that have been replaced better, like the Resistance Table, nastier DBs and weapon stats, and so on. I don't intentd to trash MRQ, I just now (sadly) realize I more than likely will not get to play it 'out of the book'.

 

[iamtim]

If you are using a dagger against someone in plate, you are doomed, unless your skillfull!

That's the other side of the coin that I wasn't going to get in to.

 

[Rurik]

If you are using a dagger against someone in plate, you are doomed, unless your skillfull!

That's the other side of the coin that I wasn't going to get in to.

The whole point that started this train of thought was someone asking if a crit to the head could kill someone in one blow. It could in RQ2/3, even if the weapon was a dagger and the defender was wearing plate.

In MRQ, it appears a crit to the head with a dagger will do NO damage if they are wearing a chain coif.

And the use precise attacks is not an answer to the original question, and not even an option for a character with a skill of 40 or less.

 

[Urox]

The whole point that started this train of thought was someone asking if a crit to the head could kill someone in one blow. It could in RQ2/3, even if the weapon was a dagger and the defender was wearing plate.

Let's take a slightly more formidable foe -- say a Dark Troll in enchanted lead chain mail ready for battle. That gives him 1 AP skin, 5 AP base armor, another 2 AP for the enchanted lead, and 1 final AP for magic. That gives... 9 AP total -- how does anything but a Precise attack get through that?

This example isn't that far off from Whiteye the Troll Bandit, who was meant to be a major foe for novice adventurers.

Now that I think about it, I guess it is a perverted critical system (as long at you have 41% or higher, you always have to go for Precise Ignore Armor against heavily armored foes).

 

[Rurik]

Well, rurik and iamtim, I would love to play the game as is, but unfortunately time and resources for gaming are limited these days. MRQ deserves every chance, but I have a thriving game of CoC and an upcoming Tekumel BRP game, and it is my judgement, right or wrong, that the systems I have in place will serve just fine without playtesting with a game that has some perceived weaknesses I don't have time to deal with. That's just the way it is. I will use parts of MRQ and support the line with bucks (reading material) but I feel better served with the games I am already using. I like some of the older BRP rules that have been replaced better, like the Resistance Table, nastier DBs and weapon stats, and so on. I don't intentd to trash MRQ, I just now (sadly) realize I more than likely will not get to play it 'out of the book'.

You can't blame me for finding this amusing can you?

One of these days I need to find some of your earlier posts to quote....

 

[Vadrus]

The whole point that started this train of thought was someone asking if a crit to the head could kill someone in one blow. It could in RQ2/3, even if the weapon was a dagger and the defender was wearing plate.

Let's take a slightly more formidable foe -- say a Dark Troll in enchanted lead chain mail ready for battle. That gives him 1 AP skin, 5 AP base armor, another 2 AP for the enchanted lead, and 1 final AP for magic. That gives... 9 AP total -- how does anything but a Precise attack get through that?

This example isn't that far off from Whiteye the Troll Bandit, who was meant to be a major foe for novice adventurers.

Now that I think about it, I guess it is a perverted critical system (as long at you have 41% or higher, you always have to go for Precise Ignore Armor against heavily armored foes).

Just use an greatsword or longbow, both 2d8 damage, an average damage roll will bounce but a decent roll will disable a location even through the armour... unless he parries of course in which case you can hit him forever and never have an effect.


Vadrus

 

[Itto]

If you are using a dagger against someone in plate, you are doomed, unless your skillfull!

That's the other side of the coin that I wasn't going to get in to.

The whole point that started this train of thought was someone asking if a crit to the head could kill someone in one blow. It could in RQ2/3, even if the weapon was a dagger and the defender was wearing plate.

In MRQ, it appears a crit to the head with a dagger will do NO damage if they are wearing a chain coif.

And the use precise attacks is not an answer to the original question, and not even an option for a character with a skill of 40 or less.

My point is in regard to your "concern" with the rules. The rules work, they are different to BRP. What the rules your all "concerend" over do is alow you have greater scope with characters what type of characters you can play and get away with. They alow you to have skillfull, lightly armed characters that can take out blokes in full plate, not because they got a lucky hit, but because they are skillfull.

I've played MRQ five times over the last 2 weeks, the rules work (rolling 1 attack dice or 2 :wink: )

 

[Rurik]

The whole point that started this train of thought was someone asking if a crit to the head could kill someone in one blow. It could in RQ2/3, even if the weapon was a dagger and the defender was wearing plate.

Let's take a slightly more formidable foe -- say a Dark Troll in enchanted lead chain mail ready for battle. That gives him 1 AP skin, 5 AP base armor, another 2 AP for the enchanted lead, and 1 final AP for magic. That gives... 9 AP total -- how does anything but a Precise attack get through that?

This example isn't that far off from Whiteye the Troll Bandit, who was meant to be a major foe for novice adventurers.

Now that I think about it, I guess it is a perverted critical system (as long at you have 41% or higher, you always have to go for Precise Ignore Armor against heavily armored foes).

I was kinda hinting at the fact that it is not that much different than impale in RQ2/3 except the max+rolled damage is done in 2 steps. It would be pretty easy to say an impale does max+rolled at once without altering the balance of MRQ's weapons and damage too much. Have a yank just do 1d4 damage, successfull or not. There is a potential to do a lot of damage once you penetrate armor by yanking on the impaling weapon. Really the same problem existed in RQ2/3, a dagger on an impale would not penetrate more than 12 AP. In MRQ it will not penetrate 5 AP. If you put back the old way (max+rolled) it can penetrate up to 10.

And I must say a dagger is in real life one of the better weapons for piercing plate, assuming you can close with your opponent, which is not a problem in a game that doesn't take reach into account.

 

[Rurik]

My point is in regard to your "concern" with the rules. The rules work, they are different to BRP. What the rules your all "concerend" over do is alow you have greater scope with characters what type of characters you can play and get away with. They alow you to have skillfull, lightly armed characters that can take out blokes in full plate, not because they got a lucky hit, but because they are skillfull.

Well for the most part all rules work. D20 works. Can a level 1 character with a dagger kill a level 12 warrior in one blow - no. The question I was answering was can a person with a dagger kill with one shot to the head if he gets lucky.

That was always a part of older RQ's, even a relatively unskilled trollkin could get lucky and take out a runelord in shot (trust me). This does not seem to be the case with MRQ. In fact even with a critical a dagger will not get through chain.

 

[WildHealer]

I do have a bad feeling about this which I guess will only come out with extended play. Basically, I can see players using the Bypass Armour option as their default tactic in combat, and likely NPCs too (well, maybe not unintelligent monsters...). In such a scenario armour becomes a bit irrelevant. If you have a combat system which more or less forces everyone to use one single tactic (well, maybe two - you could use the Specific Location thingy if there was somewhere not armoured) almost exclusively, then you may have an imbalance...

I'd be interested to see how this pans out in play.

 

[Balbinus]

Did the folk on the playtest not come across these issues? I'd have thought they could shed some light on how much of a problem it caused, and there must be some of them here surely.

 

[andakitty]

Rurik

Nope, don't blame you for being amused. I am aware of how earlier posts sounded. I was stifling doubts and hoping the whole thing would turn out OK. Although you might note in some of those posts some nervousness about things like weapon damage.*shrug*We handle these things in different ways. Come to think of it I'm kind of amused myself. I got sucked in for a while when I first noticed the similarities to BRP, got to hoping it would be 'the game'. Now it just looks like someone's homebrew version of 'the game', which I guess will always be SB1 for me. Laugh away, I'm laughing at myself over it. :lol:

 

[Rurik]

I just realized the subject of this thread.

:lol:

I think we have gotten a little off topic.