Glorantha - THE SECOND AGE

[Dead Blue Clown]

Dead Blue Clown, I'm not speaking of background mistakes.

I'm speaking about editing. Typos, words repeated, bad grammar.

Ahhhhhhh, I getcha.

Then, yeah, that's bloody annoying.

Personally I think most books have typos ( even the Bible has had them), and unless it's infested with them I don't really care.

It's a bit weird to expect a perfect book.

As a writer (or, more accurately, as a pedant and a crabby son of a bitch) I tend to spot typos when I'm reading books, be they novels, RPG texts, or ultra-conservative pamphlets inviting me to Let Jesus In and Be Saved.

I think a lot of typos in anything I'm reading is annoying, though, admittedly, I've never once read a book without a single typo. Stuff like Raymond E. Feist's novels are especially guilty, with about one a chapter - working out to one every 10 or so pages.

I mean, I don't go red in the face and run up the walls, and I don't expect perfection, but bad editing does annoy me. Admittedly, I don't think the Second Age book counts as being all that bad, mind.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Producing products with stupid, glaring mistakes is another thing...!

Edit: The last sentence needs qualification: contary to some I don't feel Mongoose has done this for RQ with the possible exception of Legendary Heroes, which needs closer inspection.

Main rule book, - Combat rules disagreeing with examples. Combat Tables giving results for a 4 by 4 comparison on a three by three table....

 

[homerjsinnott]

Ahhhhhhh, I getcha.

Then, yeah, that's bloody annoying.

Personally I think most books have typos ( even the Bible has had them), and unless it's infested with them I don't really care.

It's a bit weird to expect a perfect book.

As a writer (or, more accurately, as a pedant and a crabby son of a bitch) I tend to spot typos when I'm reading books, be they novels, RPG texts, or ultra-conservative pamphlets inviting me to Let Jesus In and Be Saved.

I think a lot of typos in anything I'm reading is annoying, though, admittedly, I've never once read a book without a single typo. Stuff like Raymond E. Feist's novels are especially guilty, with about one a chapter - working out to one every 10 or so pages.

I mean, I don't go red in the face and run up the walls, and I don't expect perfection, but bad editing does annoy me. Admittedly, I don't think the Second Age book counts as being all that bad, mind.

I think I would make a very poor writer as I would HAVE to go back and edit all of my work again and again, but in other peoples work it has never really bothered me. I think I mostly I read what I want to read, if that makes sense? The occational typo will jump out, esp if it is funny. But I suppose auto edit is a learned skill.

Also, too much time on forums makes you immune (shows how sad I am.)

 

[Durand Durand]

I think a lot of typos in anything I'm reading is annoying, though, admittedly, I've never once read a book without a single typo. Stuff like Raymond E. Feist's novels are especially guilty, with about one a chapter - working out to one every 10 or so pages.

Never read those Robert Jordan fantasy thingies. Not so much for typos but just for awful punctuation and general abuse of the language. I was nearly pulling my hair out at p60. I had to just breathe deep and perservere.

DD

 

[Kagan Altar]

I mean, I don't go red in the face and run up the walls, and I don't expect perfection, but bad editing does annoy me.

Let's be clear: I don't go red in the face either, but typos annoy me. When I say I expect nothing less than perfection as far as the editing is concerned, I mean humanly perfect. A typo in, say, fifty pages is human. More becomes quickly annoying, especially when I pick Gloranthan sourcebooks because I have this idea, inherited from my young years, that Glorantha is one of these rare fantasy worlds that's actually written for people with brains rather than hormones (okay, I'm exagerating a lot, but I think you guys see what I mean).

 

[simonh]

I had to just breathe deep and perservere.

Sorry to break it to you, but actualy you could have given up and done something worthwhile with the few hours you spent reading the rest of the book.

That's what I did, and since I gave up at about page 20 that's another 40 pages more of something else I got to read instead (A Flashman novel, if memory serves).

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

A typo in, say, fifty pages is human.

That would probably still annoy me, moreso if it was my typos.

 

[JonGeere]

I mean, I don't go red in the face and run up the walls, and I don't expect perfection, but bad editing does annoy me.

Let's be clear: I don't go red in the face either, but typos annoy me. When I say I expect nothing less than perfection as far as the editing is concerned, I mean humanly perfect. A typo in, say, fifty pages is human. More becomes quickly annoying, especially when I pick Gloranthan sourcebooks because I have this idea, inherited from my young years, that Glorantha is one of these rare fantasy worlds that's actually written for people with brains rather than hormones (okay, I'm exagerating a lot, but I think you guys see what I mean).

A word to the wize, don't go near Legendary Heroes: typo city there. I kept come across them even trying not to look for them. So either I Crit my editing roll or the book is littered with them.

 

[Kagan Altar]

A word to the wize, don't go near Legendary Heroes: typo city there. I kept come across them even trying not to look for them. So either I Crit my editing roll or the book is littered with them.

Warm up the dice, man! Warm up the dice!

I hope I didn't rub you the wrong way about the editing. I'm trying to be constructive, even if that's not showing too much in my writing on this thread. Sorry about that.

 

[Loz]

I think I would make a very poor writer as I would HAVE to go back and edit all of my work again and again,

I think that would make you a good writer. Any writer worth his or her salt self-edits constantly; that's how the work improves, and how your craft improves. It's a very good discipline to have, although there does come a point where you have to call a halt and hand it over to someone else!

 

[Durand Durand]

I had to just breathe deep and perservere.

Sorry to break it to you, but actualy you could have given up and done something worthwhile with the few hours you spent reading the rest of the book.

That's what I did, and since I gave up at about page 20 that's another 40 pages more of something else I got to read instead (A Flashman novel, if memory serves).

Would that I had, Simon, would that I had. I was trying to read one [R. Jordan book that is] out of curiousity of the vast appeal they seemed to have with so many folk. I'd glanced at the RPG book and thougth it held some potential, thought I'd force my way through a book to see if it had any appeal. No. I should've gone back to flashman myself.

DD

 

[simonh]

Would that I had, Simon, would that I had. I was trying to read one [R. Jordan book that is] out of curiousity of the vast appeal they seemed to have with so many folk. ...

You're a braver man than I.

 

[Kagan Altar]

So. I just went on with my reading of Glorantha: The Second Age and kept looking back at my Genertela and Les Dieux de Glorantha volumes at the same time, comparing the takes on the background.

There are some interesting differences. For instance, the way the Orlanthi talks about the different ages of the world and how mythical events occured is a real pleasure to read (I actually was utterly hooked with GSA when reading the Kraloreli background - I love the flavour there. Always did - and I'm not a fan of anime/oriental popular stuff). It's interesting to see that in this Orlanthi version Orlanth goes to the Underworld with the Lightbringers to bring back Ernalda. It just "occurs" to Orlanth to bring back Yelm as well. In my 1980's version of the Cults of Glorantha (Les Dieux de Glorantha in French), Orlanth feels remorse and wants to save the world of the Darkness, therefore undertaking the quest of the Lightbringers.

I think it's awesome to see cultural differences emerge with the passage of time. Would it be that the alliance of Orlanthi and Yelmites during the dominion of the EWF brought a revision of the Lightbringer quest? Or maybe the God Learners had something to do with that change? Or is it purely coincidental? Maybe a bit of all these? I think that makes the whole world more "alive".

The same way, in my Genertela volume, it is said that first the God Learners replaced the first Emperor of post-Time Kralorela with a ruling council or ring of five God Learners. To avoid being murdered by the populace, they then placed a puppet Emperor on the throne. The Kraloreli's take on his own history doesn't disagree with it, but has a very different focus on the traitorous Immanent Masters. It also says in Genertela that the Emperor was more or less exiled, forced out by the God Learners, and in effect "killed", rather than assassinated by Immanent Masters.

I find all this to be fascinating. Doesn't anybody else feel the same way?

 

[B_Steele]

I think that makes the whole world more "alive".

I find all this to be fascinating. Doesn't anybody else feel the same way?

I absolutely agree. Whenever I work on a Glorantha project I look at the original material and wonder how we at Mongoose can make it our own without blasting everything the current RQ fans know and love out of the water. Myths change (ask a God Learner!), and the time between the Ages morphed many tales, albeit slightly.

I hope that becomes clear when the Player's Guide comes out, as I had an enormous amount of fun working on that book. I'm hoping that my work there will give more than a few people on these boards a good laugh, raise a few eyebrows, and maybe steer a few more players toward GSA (as the kids are callin' it these days 8) ).

Also, I think doing a small Kralorela sourcebook (like the one on Ralios) would be really cool...I dig those wacky Immanent Masters!

Cheers all,
Bry

 

[Kagan Altar]

I absolutely agree. Whenever I work on a Glorantha project I look at the original material and wonder how we at Mongoose can make it our own without blasting everything the current RQ fans know and love out of the water. Myths change (ask a God Learner!), and the time between the Ages morphed many tales, albeit slightly.

Another one, related to the Lightbringer quest, is the absence or change of name of Yelmalio there. That really makes me want to know more about the reasons behind these variations. Would Yelmalio have had a tremendous role in the alliance between Orlanthi and Yelmites, therefore "earning" his role in the Lightbringer quest "retroactively"?

I hope that becomes clear when the Player's Guide comes out, as I had an enormous amount of fun working on that book. I'm hoping that my work there will give more than a few people on these boards a good laugh, raise a few eyebrows, and maybe steer a few more players toward GSA (as the kids are callin' it these days 8) ).

That all depends how it's done of course, there's balance to be found I think, but that's really the kind of thing that's interesting to read for a Gloranthan "grognard" when it's done with taste and coherence.

Also, I think doing a small Kralorela sourcebook (like the one on Ralios) would be really cool...I dig those wacky Immanent Masters!

Heck, all the regions of Glorantha would deserve their own sourcebooks! And then, a deluxe, "ptolusian" printed version called The Atlas of Glorantha! That'd be neat.

 

[Durand Durand]

I find all this to be fascinating. Doesn't anybody else feel the same way?

Yup, GSA is a fine book. I'll tell all my freinds to buy that one, even if they whinge about MRQ rules, this one's a real winner.

The things I ALWAYS loved in Glornatha were the contradictions.

I'd have to say Kralorela was always among my most favourite places, even if I never played a game set there. Long ago I turned my hand to writing a paragraph or two on the Kraloreli understanding of Draconic wisdom, and a few short stories about a westerner [Malkioni] trying to survive the inscrutable Imperial bureaucracy. No idea what happend to any of that material. I'll have to search the old Glornathan Digest for them.

DD

 

[B_Steele]

And then, a deluxe, "ptolusian" printed version called The Atlas of Glorantha! That'd be neat.

Hmmm...if all of us writers did a section or two as separate chunks, we sold them as separate pdfs as they were finished, then compiled as you say into a printed volume...maybe one that came with big awesome maps (that was for you Trif )...I think this idea has merit.

I'm not high enough on the food chain to make a decision like that, nor would I want to be, but I'm sure Matthew will see this here and know that I am game if he is.

Cheers,
bry

 

[Kagan Altar]

Hmmm...if all of us writers did a section or two as separate chunks, we sold them as seperate pdfs as they were finished, then compiled as you say into a printed volume...maybe one that came with big awesome maps (that was for you Trif )...I think this idea has merit.

Glad you like the idea, Bry! That's exactly what I meant.

The things I ALWAYS loved in Glornatha were the contradictions.

That's one really nice thing that differenciates Glorantha from other fantasy worlds. There is such a thing as coherent, believable contradictions to be brought into a fantasy world. That really hooked me on GSA so far!

 

[Exubae]

Hmmm...if all of us writers did a section or two as separate chunks, we sold them as seperate pdfs as they were finished, then compiled as you say into a printed volume...maybe one that came with big awesome maps (that was for you Trif )...I think this idea has merit.

Wicked idea...

Nitt picking... but isn't the plural of Elf ... Elves/ Dwarf ... Dwarves (Re - GSA)
Lack of Proof reading and GSA is still cool

 

[burdock]

exubae wrote

isn't the plural of Elf ... Elves

Tolkien invented the word Elves (with a "v" ) before him it was always elfs.