G'Koth Trasnport Cruiser
- Thread starter Morgoth
- Start date
As usual I probably come across as snippy...but my main point was that folks wanted to use a fairly well pointed model (yes yes...speed 6/7) that used a model folks often bemoan has too few uses.
I am also not sure that your comment about it being fairly well accepted that the Narn are good at one PL and the Centauri are good at another is terribly accurate. While it is certainly true that the races in question possess those traits, the acceptance of substandard ships at any pl is not really accepted, and there are many posts pointing out the problem with that model in what is realistically a six (seven?) point system where depending on the level of the fight you points are better than my points. At raid narn and centauri are equal but that means that at battle they must not be as the cost of the skirmish goes up? (ie former two skirmish to one raid but now I have to pit one of my raid vs one of your known to be superior raid to match up a one battle break down)
That said long live the G'koth...cause like many here I own four of the models (maybe six...have to look at the unassembled pile) and would like to be able to field them all in something under a four War scenario, it is bar know the best looking of the Narn ships. (though I do like the scout and the Var'Nic...must love the lopsided or they'll fall over)
Ripple
I am also not sure that your comment about it being fairly well accepted that the Narn are good at one PL and the Centauri are good at another is terribly accurate. While it is certainly true that the races in question possess those traits, the acceptance of substandard ships at any pl is not really accepted, and there are many posts pointing out the problem with that model in what is realistically a six (seven?) point system where depending on the level of the fight you points are better than my points. At raid narn and centauri are equal but that means that at battle they must not be as the cost of the skirmish goes up? (ie former two skirmish to one raid but now I have to pit one of my raid vs one of your known to be superior raid to match up a one battle break down)
That said long live the G'koth...cause like many here I own four of the models (maybe six...have to look at the unassembled pile) and would like to be able to field them all in something under a four War scenario, it is bar know the best looking of the Narn ships. (though I do like the scout and the Var'Nic...must love the lopsided or they'll fall over)
Ripple
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
If the G'Koth (also known as crap plot device ship) :wink: were at raid that would make it the only hull available at 3 different PLs...... :roll:
Sure you want to use your G'Quans so use them as G'Quans/G'Tals/G'Quonths/G'Lans etc
Should there be a raid level Primus so I can use that at a lower PL?
Should we have raid level Sharlins? Omegas?
Every race can say they want more use from their defining iconic ship.
That is a far more telling argument, we can all start these threads and get "public support"
Sure you want to use your G'Quans so use them as G'Quans/G'Tals/G'Quonths/G'Lans etc
Should there be a raid level Primus so I can use that at a lower PL?
Should we have raid level Sharlins? Omegas?
Every race can say they want more use from their defining iconic ship.
That is a far more telling argument, we can all start these threads and get "public support"
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
hiffano said:
No I am saying that there are arguments against it, or am I not allowed an opinion? :roll:
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
hiffano said:anyway damn you, we want a g'koth!
oh, and Hyperion, available to three fleets, across 3 PL's ;-)
and you might well get one, though I think it's a shame cos there are some really nasty Narn raid ships now. E-mines HURT!
Ah the Hyperion 3 PLs of course, I was thinking in 2nd ed terms.... :wink:
Morgoth said:
Good job Morgoth!
@EP - mate, your opinion, whether you like it or not, has a lot of weight on the forum as you're a playtester and are seen to have Matt's ear on ACTA so to speak. Of course you're allowed an opinion but it can be frustrating when you disagree strongly with people because it carries a perceived authority and can dash hopes for what seems like a majority!
Not saying that's what you intended only that it's very easy, rightly or wrongly, to misconstrue what you're saying as not personal opinion but Mongoose by proxie! Hope you don't take offence at that - I'm honestly not trying to have a go, I can just identify a little with frustration when folks have a radically different viewpoint to me
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Hash said:
I wish! :lol:
Of course you're allowed an opinion but it can be frustrating when you disagree strongly with people because it carries a perceived authority and can dash hopes for what seems like a majority!
Not saying that's what you intended only that it's very easy, rightly or wrongly, to misconstrue what you're saying as not personal opinion but Mongoose by proxie! Hope you don't take offence at that - I'm honestly not trying to have a go, I can just identify a little with frustration when folks have a radically different viewpoint to me
No problem, it certainly wasn't what i intended and whenever I say something bear in mind it is just MY opinion, I'm not Mr Corbett to Matt's Sooty :lol:
horrible image.....
And I was worried 'I' would come across as snippy...sheesh
On the bad plot device end of things, can we get rid of jump point bombs as a dumb plot device as well? How about stealth (we can clearly look out the window of the EA bridge and see the ship yet we cannot point our gun at it?). How about not being able to jump to hyper and return (WS did it vs the Drahk why can't we.) Just saying there a a bunch of kinda dumb things due to plot and 'wouldn't that look cool on screen'.
As too the just use them as x suggestion, I would agree if any of those ships were worth taking, but they aren't. There is always a better ship or better combination, in large part due to the main armament of the ships being unaccountably weak on the G'quan (yes talking about the laser here folks...we see mines once...they do squat...the beams damage a number of ships, including a shadow ship). Having a G'quan that would actually fly like one would be cool...having one I could use effectively in the most common level fight (raid) would also be cool, a boresighted ship with a 3 AD laser and some semi-useful mines never struck me as a good buy at raid as opposed to a Primus which most certainly is a good buy (or better yet a Tertius which barely give up anything to get more offense at the same level).
That said I have tried to make the G'lan work many times but it is just too slow given its beam range and boresightedness. Too often I get one shot with the bore and get my possible arc overflown.
I do have to withhold judgement on what e-mines will be like in the next edition...might very well change my opinion of the G'Quan.
Not trying to start anything...just wanted to say its not a matter of just fishing for popular support or starting frivilous posts. I looked at the G'Koth and saw it was non-unigue just days ago and asked my pal if he would mind me using one...he couldn't see a reason why no. I couldn't either. When I saw this thread I thought a generally good idea was getting some play, ie a use for a G'Quan variant I would want to use and add some more flavour to the Narn fleet, a real choice at raid to make me WANT to get away from a bat squad without without deliberately hamstringing myself. it seemed all win, G'quan enthusiats get to play their model, the narn players who hate fielding the stack of one model get what they want and remain competative, and a set of already done stats that seemed fine if a bit on the slow side could see more table time.
Ripple...again getting all wordy and stuff...sigh...
On the bad plot device end of things, can we get rid of jump point bombs as a dumb plot device as well? How about stealth (we can clearly look out the window of the EA bridge and see the ship yet we cannot point our gun at it?). How about not being able to jump to hyper and return (WS did it vs the Drahk why can't we.) Just saying there a a bunch of kinda dumb things due to plot and 'wouldn't that look cool on screen'.
As too the just use them as x suggestion, I would agree if any of those ships were worth taking, but they aren't. There is always a better ship or better combination, in large part due to the main armament of the ships being unaccountably weak on the G'quan (yes talking about the laser here folks...we see mines once...they do squat...the beams damage a number of ships, including a shadow ship). Having a G'quan that would actually fly like one would be cool...having one I could use effectively in the most common level fight (raid) would also be cool, a boresighted ship with a 3 AD laser and some semi-useful mines never struck me as a good buy at raid as opposed to a Primus which most certainly is a good buy (or better yet a Tertius which barely give up anything to get more offense at the same level).
That said I have tried to make the G'lan work many times but it is just too slow given its beam range and boresightedness. Too often I get one shot with the bore and get my possible arc overflown.
I do have to withhold judgement on what e-mines will be like in the next edition...might very well change my opinion of the G'Quan.
Not trying to start anything...just wanted to say its not a matter of just fishing for popular support or starting frivilous posts. I looked at the G'Koth and saw it was non-unigue just days ago and asked my pal if he would mind me using one...he couldn't see a reason why no. I couldn't either. When I saw this thread I thought a generally good idea was getting some play, ie a use for a G'Quan variant I would want to use and add some more flavour to the Narn fleet, a real choice at raid to make me WANT to get away from a bat squad without without deliberately hamstringing myself. it seemed all win, G'quan enthusiats get to play their model, the narn players who hate fielding the stack of one model get what they want and remain competative, and a set of already done stats that seemed fine if a bit on the slow side could see more table time.
Ripple...again getting all wordy and stuff...sigh...
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
.Ripple said:
Jump point bombs are cool! Just too easy to execute at present.
You can only see the Sharlin in tv land in reality it is thousands of kms away! And as for really building warships with windows in the vaccuum of space!
But you're making an assumption that the situation will be like that in 2nd ed. My main point wasn't about "plot devices" but rather that most people were saying "we want a raid level g'quan so we can use the model more"
Now look at that logically. If a thread starts with Centauri players saying "hey lets have a raid level Primus so we can use it more" or EA "raid level omega please" or Minbari "raid level sharlin please". That is my concern. Anyone can state a case for model x should be more readily available across PLs.
The Minbari said they couldn't hurt our ships not hit them. Sharlins seemed to get hit a lot in the movie but nothing much happened even Starfuries rammed them. That why i prefered the increase bulkhead hits on the failed Stealth roll.Ripple said:
Back to the real topic, it would be good to have G'Quan variant in raid lvl, hardly ever use more than one. Not a fan of ships keeping the same hits through the differing priority lvls, make them a little harder to balance in my mind or though the hyperions aren't too bad at skirmish. Guessing ti will a hull 5 version of a G'Quan.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
Target said:
Except to the Grey Council's one.
Morgoth
Mongoose
Ripple said:
Again I agree here, the main fact is that the ship is NON-unique and therefore they are still present in the fleet, even the fluff says their are. So whats really the big deal about having a raid level variant? Mongoose produced and made the stats for it so I really can't see the problem about it, sorry Mongoose haven't done a Primus raid variant but do you really need one with a Sulust and Prefect sitting there??????and I forgot that the Tertius is such a "non-broken" ship after all. All we are proposing is that stats that have been created get used. I too have turned round to friends and said, heh can I use this and they have said sure no problems its non-unique so why not. And the point doesn't boil down to its a raid ship so lets use it, it could be any priority, all we want is to see the stats and ship come to life outside of the Earth Minabri book. If there were stats for a Centauri, EA or whatever other race non-unique ship in a book and someone was proposing that, I would second the motion in an instant to bring more variety to the game. After all variety is the spice of life!!
Ripple said:
Pretty much agree with everything you just said! Sorry but JPB are not cool - an obscure bad plot device turned into a standard tourney tactic is not in the spirit of the show IMHO nor is it part of a cool game. I refuse to use them in friendlies and tournament games as a matter of principle...that and Shadows can't do them anyway
Back on topic - we want the G'Koth! It's cool, it's balanced, the stats are there - published by Mongoose!
Come on please?
