Get your D&D out of my Conan!

[rabindranath72]

Yep, exactly. S&S is supposed to be "heroic/realistic", not super-heroic/epic. And that translates into at most 10th level characters (which is even a stretch). 6-7th level is more into the "human", by design (i.e. the d20 system has been designed so that human/heroic is up to about 7th level).

EDIT:
I got the reference, written by Ryan Dancey:

Levels 1-5: Gritty fantasy
Levels 6-10: Heroic fantasy
Levels 11-15: Wuxia
Levels 16-20: Superheroes

 

[Sting52jb]

I run a D20 game with very little magic and almost absolutely no magic items and i have never had any problems with my characters dying or being overpowered.

The way CR works is that a group of 4 characters at the same level as the CR should be able to defeat said creature with out the use of anything but their standard gear. So four 1st level characters should be able to defeat 1 CR 1 creature with out any one in the party dying.

Also it is possible to game with out magical gear and potions of flying there are more feats out there you can find to easily supplement your characters AC by boosting the characters Dex Bonus.

Plus no matter how much armor you where and how much training you have you will sooner or later reach a peek where your armor will no longer allow you to be able to perry or dodge some moves and where your armor will not be able to absorb all the damage you receive. That is why we no longer fight in suits of full armor.

 

[Clovenhoof]

The way CR works is that a group of 4 characters at the same level as the CR should be able to defeat said creature with out the use of anything but their standard gear.

Almost correct. First, the group is supposed to beat the encounter expending a quarter of their resources, where resources are hit points, spells and other expendables. And by "standard gear", the system means "gear to the list price total of, and not exceeding, the sum of the average treasure gained as per the treasure table".

Some time ago, I took the time to write up a table calculating the total net worth per level for a standard D&D game, counting in all items and expendables:

Lv Total wealth per character
1 0,00
2 997,50
3 2.992,50
4 5.985,00
5 9.975,00
6 15.295,00
7 21.945,00
8 30.590,00
9 41.895,00
10 56.857,50
11 76.142,50
12 101.080,00
13 133.665,00
14 176.890,00
15 233.415,00
16 306.565,00
17 399.665,00
18 519.365,00
19 675.640,00
20 878.465,00

[Note, there's a very similar table in the DMG, which already deducts expenses for consumables such as potions etc.]

Also it is possible to game with out magical gear and potions of flying there are more feats out there you can find to easily supplement your characters AC by boosting the characters Dex Bonus.

As I and others have said, that works for low levels (<7) but certainly not for mid or high levels. You can't even boost that Dex bonus significantly without magic items. Show us an SRD build of, say, level 12 that has at least a 50-50 chance to beat a single CR12 monster without any magic gear, if the opponents start 30' away from each other. But let's keep "maximized fireballs" and the like out of the equation - I want to see a build that relies on physical damage, though Buff spells are okay.
Suitable encounters may be a Frost Worm, a Kraken, or Purple Worm.

Plus no matter how much armor you where and how much training you have you will sooner or later reach a peek where your armor will no longer allow you to be able to perry or dodge some moves and where your armor will not be able to absorb all the damage you receive. That is why we no longer fight in suits of full armor.

Are you talking about Conan or D&D now? I don't really understand what you're getting at. In D&D, your armour will max out around the aforementioned AC21 without magic items, but with standard items you'll get to high 40s or even 50s in time, which you need when you look at attack bonuses of high level monsters or characters.

 

[Red Tulwar]

.....Then I found an intro style adventure called Red Snows and I playtested with my then group. .....

Hey! Do you still have a copy of "Red Snows"? I'm the orignal author, and I no longer have a copy of the scenario. I lost it after I redesigned my website and (rather stupidly) didn't make a copy when I backed up my files. If anyone has an old copy of "Red Snows" (which is actually short for "And the Snow will Run Red with the Blood of Our Enemies"), I'd love to have it for sheer nostalgia.

I've been away from Conan gaming for quite a while, but plan to leap back into it very soon with my new gaming group.

 

[Hervé]

I think I have a copy of it on a CD somewhere. I'll try to unearth it. I'll MP you if I find it back.

Ah, I just love the title of this topic... :mrgreen:

 

[Red Tulwar]

I think I have a copy of it on the CD somewhere. I'll try to unearth it. I'll MP you if I find it back.

Thanks, I'd appreciate that!

 

[Yogah of Yag]

Getting the D&D out of Conan RPG is one thing, but much harder to PUT Conan into D&D, which is what I've been trying to do for the past two years.

 

[Style]

Getting the D&D out of Conan RPG is one thing, but much harder to PUT Conan into D&D, which is what I've been trying to do for the past two years.

What kind of campaign are you running?

 

[Yogah of Yag]

Getting the D&D out of Conan RPG is one thing, but much harder to PUT Conan into D&D, which is what I've been trying to do for the past two years.

What kind of campaign are you running?

No campaign, per se, right now but relearning/rediscovering AD&D over on the Dragonsfoot forum. There are tons of discussions about this very subject on how to increase the "S&S feel" of B/AD&D.

The big problem is the magic system. I like the concept of Power Points (and the related Earth Power of Slaine RPG) and have engineered a system practically identical to it.

Upping weapon damage (including monster attacks), importing a Terror of Unknown mechanic (to boost the eldritch, "Lovecraftian" weirdness feel as much as possible), using the Unearthed Arcana Barbie character class, and a few other things.

I've never fully liked Gygax's Greyhawk world (sorry, EGG!), and much rather like Hyboria for gaming..if I were forced to choose.

Right now I'm gearing up for a Classic Traveller campaign, but will return to S&S in the future!

 

[Aholibamah]

One system you could use to do that or at least the setting is Harnmaster. It has a largely medieval setting but there are also barbarians. There are elves and dwarves but they are mysterious creatures most people have never seen and consider to be legendary. Orcs (Gargun) exist but are similarly rare. There is a lot of free material online for it as well. it's fairly low magic and humanocentric. Certainly it could be used for the more 'civilized' areas in a Conan campaign, and a lot of the adventures have rather gritty elements.

 

[Spongly]

The problem with Harn is that even fights with a single opponent have about an odds on chance of you ending up missing a hand and dying of gangrene - it's a totally merciless combat syetm that I don't think models the heroic style of Conan all that well. Gritty is one thing, but you have to be able to wade through 12 city guardsmen as well - in Harn you'd be cut to ribbons in seconds, however good you are.

 

[warzen]

That's in fact the big question: is Conan rpg supposed to be gritty (or deadly) ? Do you want your players to be Conan-like, or is Conan an exceptionnal unmatched being and your player character are just normal people in the hyborean age ?

This is not a question specific to Conan but to all strong theme rpgs.
In LOTR, do you want PCs matching Gandalf the White capabilities or are they just a bunch of Gondorian guys on the loose ?

Was Luke really the last Jedi ?...etc

You can't really choose a system before having defined the tone of your campaign.

W.

 

[Ichabod]

I've played in games where the background was licensed material but the PCs were just ordinary people. I was lost on the concept. Even the concept of starting out as some nobody and rising to being a player in the world doesn't really make any sense to me - too much "this might be cool ... 10 levels from now".

It's just so disappointing to have no relation to what the series is about.

I can play a sidekick or a B-teamer or a "the names are fighting other names while you all do your thang"er as an inside joke, but that requires a buy in on the setup and a good sense of humor on everyone's parts. We did this with Dragonball Z (yes, have actually played in a DBZ campaign).

Because of the problems associated with replicating material where there's one uberhero, I've come to believe that the better worlds to use are ones where the heroes of the story aren't that worldshaking. Conan is a great world for RPing because Conan himself isn't important to the world. Elric/Stormbringer - problematic to where I no longer can get all that enthused even though it was my first choice for the longest time of worlds to play in. Compare Buffy to Angel. Former is kind of playable, but the latter makes way more sense for a RPG.

While I've run into this with other games, such as Star Wars, the most mindblowing examples of "Wtf?!? What is the point of this?" have to come from every game of Wheel of Time I've ever played. I don't know quite why I got sucked into a second or third try at it. Even with the "you are not one of the names" problem with the world, gaming in the world can't possibly be as bad as reading the books. Except, it's been worse. For some reason, convention GMs seem to think the idea of wandering down the road encountering bandits is a proper homage to a fantasy world that would be pretty cool if all of the teen characters had been executed in the first book by the much less obnoxious adults, well, and if all of the Aes Sedai had been exterminated too.

Actually, that's an interesting idea for a WoT game. Set it before the Age of Irritation and wipe out the Aes Sedai and have the world need heroes rather than whiners.

 

[Aholibamah]

The problem with Harn is that even fights with a single opponent have about an odds on chance of you ending up missing a hand and dying of gangrene - it's a totally merciless combat syetm that I don't think models the heroic style of Conan all that well. Gritty is one thing, but you have to be able to wade through 12 city guardsmen as well - in Harn you'd be cut to ribbons in seconds, however good you are.

This is true. The setting itself is what I draw from, not the actual combat system. The setting provides interesting places and npcs as well as some adventures.

 

[Krushnak]

The setting itself is what I draw from, not the actual combat system. The setting provides interesting places and npcs as well as some adventures.

This is true, but if i want to play a fighter i do want alot of options in combat to pull off all my crazy ideas and it just so happens that Conan D20 has it all there with the combat manoeuvres(i never know if i spell that word right) and feat choices. same thing with the social aspect, there needs to be enough meat there in the rules for the GM and player to work with. Admittedly 3rd ed. didnt really have much too it, well really any skills didnt really have much to do in that setting of D&d(re: Magic Overload) but i do think some of it has been adressed with the noble and temptress classes and the additional uses for the social skills in the Hyboria's Fallen and Finest books.

But i digress. Roleplay is seperate from the system used but the system will definately have an impact on the players perceptions. Atitttude is a very important thing in games and the tone of the rules will have an effect for good or bad is up to the individual(ie: i hate SW saga with unbridled rage, but some 'misguided' individuals like it )

 

[Hervé]

Krushnak wrote:

Roleplay is seperate from the system used but the system will definately have an impact on the players perceptions. Atitttude is a very important thing in games and the tone of the rules will have an effect for good or bad is up to the individual

.

Completely agree. It would be a silly thing to think the contrary. Game systems have a HUGE impact on the players perceptions, and therefore on how they roleplay their characters.

 

[Demetrio]

It would be a silly thing to think the contrary

The only way a system can inhibit rp is by its mechanics preventing or discouraging setting-appropriate behaviour or character building.

But given that we're not taking about wholly genre inapproprate systems then quite honestly most boils down to taste.

For instance I think Conan works pretty well for Hyboria, Savage Worlds would do at a pinch and RQ/BRP poor because of the way the opposed rolls work in combat and lethality of weapons to unarmoured characters.

But actually there is nothing mechanically that prevents a Hyborian game using any of those systems. And we know that because all are being used by forum members. The tone of the rules can be separated from its mechanics (obviously as otherwise we'd have neither d20 nor CoC etc merely D&D and RQ, the original settings for the rules).

You can have specific tweaks to rules to try and encourage player behaviour - like the Pendragon system where personality traits are assigned a value. But in general it is player preconceptions that are at the root of most problems

 

[kintire]

Completely agree. It would be a silly thing to think the contrary.

A silly thing? So everyone who disagrees with you is silly? [tantrum] Well okay Herve, you stick to your ONE TRUE WAY. You refuse to accept any flaws in your fanatically held view. How can you possibly say such evil evil things about we objective reasonable people? FANATIC!!!!111!!!!!11!!!![/tantrum]

In any case, I have the same opinion about your ideas. The thing about roleplaying is that system isn't used for those bits. Roleplaying your character involves talking, to the GM and the other players. Unless you are using a system like Pendragon which tries to impose itself on the roleplaying sections (a terrible idea) no dice are rolled, except maybe the occassional bluff, persuade or similar skill to see how it is going over. Roleplaying is about deciding what your character says and does: Rescue the princess or ransom her? Recover the stolen goods or re-steal them? that kind of thing. The system determines whther you succeed or not, but it has no impact whatever on the roleplaying.

But in general it is player preconceptions that are at the root of most problems

Careful Demetrio. While absolutely true, this is dangerous talk. There are people around here who really don't like being told their cherished truths are just personal tastes...

 

[Hervé]

A silly thing? So everyone who disagrees with you is silly? [tantrum] Well okay Herve, you stick to your ONE TRUE WAY. You refuse to accept any flaws in your fanatically held view. How can you possibly say such evil evil things about we objective reasonable people? FANATIC!!!!111!!!!!11!!!![/tantrum]

I'm through with you and your petty personal attacks, kintire. We're talking about gaming views on a gaming forum. That's all.

You see your own flaws in other people. I think many people around are begining to get bored by your Mr Right lesson giving attitude. Axerules was probably right, after all, it must make you feel powerful to harass people well hidden behind your computer.

And it looks like it's not the first forum where you encounter these problems. So maybe you should try to open your eyes and ask yourself some questions about your own behaviour...


In the meantime, why don't you dig yourself a hole and jump in it?

 

[kintire]

I'm through with you and your petty personal attacks, kintire. We're talking about gaming views on a gaming forum. That's all.

But I don't get to be through with you and yours? typical. You've been baiting me in several different threads lately... but you don't like it when it comes back, do you?

I'm happy. I've made my point: you're holding me to standards you don't meet yourself.

Lets make a deal shall we Herve? If you stop, I will.