Formidable Task Difficulty

[Captain Nebula]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no way to get Exceptional Success on a Formidable task with a single skill and attribute modifier, under the Traveller rules. Skill-5 is the cap, right?

Example:

Pilot-5
Dex 15 (+3 DM)

Even if I roll a 12, I'm still only getting a total of 18. If I then subtract the -6 for a Formidable task, I get 12, with is 2 points short of Exceptional Success.

Am I doing this wrong?

 

[sideranautae]

Skill-5 is the cap, right?

I haven't seen that rule in Mgt Core Rules. Do you know where that is written?

 

[Jeraa]

Increasing the time to make the check gives you a bonus for each step you increase.
Stats are only capped at 15 for an unaugmented human - they can go higher, with augmentation or aliens.
And as far as I know, there is no cap on skill ranks.

 

[Captain Nebula]

That makes more sense then.

Thank you both.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no way to get Exceptional Success on a Formidable task with a single skill and attribute modifier, under the Traveller rules. Skill-5 is the cap, right?

Example:

Pilot-5
Dex 15 (+3 DM)

Even if I roll a 12, I'm still only getting a total of 18. If I then subtract the -6 for a Formidable task, I get 12, with is 2 points short of Exceptional Success.

Am I doing this wrong?

Check your math.
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos?pid=6088138063016719426&oid=108238709099957334707

When generating characters, the highest skill level I ever see is 7. But that is very rare.

ADDED:
I just rolled up an NPC that has a 9 in Administration. They are very old though. But with the snap of their fingers, they can make someone in a subsector an unperson.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

You can also have Situational modifiers, Aiding Another Character and Task Chains (MGT page 50 and 51) which can boost the final result.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

I don't know why they give names for DCs like "Formidable"? Couldn't they just remember the number 15? With Traveller you basically substitute the 2d6 for a d20 roll.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I don't know why they give names for DCs like "Formidable"? Couldn't they just remember the number 15? With Traveller you basically substitute the 2d6 for a d20 roll.

It's for role-play purposes. How do you role-play the number 15? And a 2D6 roll is nothing like a D20 roll. But you know this already. I'm not sure where you got the 15 from for a Mongoose Traveller skill check though.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

I don't know why they give names for DCs like "Formidable"? Couldn't they just remember the number 15? With Traveller you basically substitute the 2d6 for a d20 roll.

While a referee can certainly make up their own difficulty +-DMs as they wish, I find using "words" to describe a task a useful tool to determine task difficulty quickly and somewhat consistently. Helps to keep less notes.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

It also helps when converting from one game to another

D20 Task DC	Traveller	Check
?	                -5	Simple	        +6
Very Easy	         0	Easy	        +4
Easy	                 5	Routine	        +2
[b]Average	         10	Average	        +0[/b]
Tough	        15	Difficult	-2
Challenging	        20	Very Difficult	-4
[b]Formidable	        25	Formidible	-6[/b]
Heroic	        30	?	        -8
Superheroic	35	?	       -10
Nearly Impossible 40	?	       -12

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

I don't know why they give names for DCs like "Formidable"? Couldn't they just remember the number 15? With Traveller you basically substitute the 2d6 for a d20 roll.

While a referee can certainly make up their own difficulty +-DMs as they wish, I find using "words" to describe a task a useful tool to determine task difficulty quickly and somewhat consistently. Helps to keep less notes.

you still have to remember the value of each word, and those values only hold for the game you are playing. If you put it into a sentence for instance "Hacking into the computer system and over riding the security protocols is a Formidable Task!" I can imagine a player saying, "I know, but how hard is it?" For most people words like "Formidable" and "Hard" do not have numeric values. Now in D20 you would say "Hacking into the computer system and overriding the security protocols has a difficulty level of 15!" there you have it the number you have to roll or higher in order to succeed in a task, if you are given a word like "Formidable" you stare at it for a while, and then something clicks in your head, "Oh yeah 'Formidable' represents a value, so what is that value? I have my 2d6s ready to roll, but what value do I have to roll higher than in order to succeed? Oh yeah that chart must be here somewhere!" He looks around, "Oh fido, let go of that Task Chart!" "Grrrr", "Let me have it Fido, don't chew on that task chart, I need it to know what I have to roll higher than to succeed!" "Grrr!" "Let me have it Fido, bad dog, bad dog!" "Oh wait the task chart is printed in the Core rulebook. Hey Billy I need the core rulebook to look up 'Formidable' do you have it?" "I'm looking up charts in the index, ah here it is!" He flips over a number of pages, "ah yes 'Formidable' equals 15!"

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

It also helps when converting from one game to another

D20 Task DC	Traveller	Check
?	                -5	Simple	        +6
Very Easy	         0	Easy	        +4
Easy	                 5	Routine	        +2
[b]Average	         10	Average	        +0[/b]
Tough	        15	Difficult	-2
Challenging	        20	Very Difficult	-4
[b]Formidable	        25	Formidible	-6[/b]
Heroic	        30	?	        -8
Superheroic	35	?	       -10
Nearly Impossible 40	?	       -12

Yep but in D20 they give you the value you need to roll up front, they don't substitute a word like "Formidable" that you have to look up to find the value of if you haven't remembered it. And I see difficulty class works differently in Traveller. in D20 is a number you have to roll or higher in order to achieve success, in Traveller the difficulty class is itself a modifier to your roll and you have to roll 8 or greater in order to succeed. So if you roll a natural 12 that counts as an automatic success, chances of getting a natural 12 are 1 in 36, while the chances of rolling a natural 20 on a d20 is 1 in 20.

 

[Rick]

And I see difficulty class works differently in Traveller. in D20 is a number you have to roll or higher in order to achieve success, in Traveller the difficulty class is itself a modifier to your roll and you have to roll 8 or greater in order to succeed.

Exactly Tom - very succinct; I doubt if I could have explained why you cannot compare D&D and Traveller task systems any better - they are apples and oranges.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

There is no DC in Traveller. And role-players do not talk in numbers at the table.

 

[sideranautae]

And role-players do not talk in numbers at the table.

Sure they do. All the time. PC's don't talk in numbers. But, only competent GM's know that. :lol:

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

And I see difficulty class works differently in Traveller. in D20 is a number you have to roll or higher in order to achieve success, in Traveller the difficulty class is itself a modifier to your roll and you have to roll 8 or greater in order to succeed.

Exactly Tom - very succinct; I doubt if I could have explained why you cannot compare D&D and Traveller task systems any better - they are apples and oranges.

Well you can compare them, just because Traveller DCs modify your roll and not your target they are still probabilities. 2d6 is kind of like rolling a 36-sided die, except the probabilities don't come in even increments as they do in a d20 die.

2d6-- P-width---- Prcnt roll-------- 1d20
2----- 2.78%----- 2.78%----------- 1
3----- 5.56%----- 8.33%----------- 2
4----- 8.33%----- 16.67%---------- 3
5----- 11.11%---- 27.78%---------- 4 to 6
6----- 13.89%---- 41.67%---------- 7 to 8
7----- 16.67%---- 58.33%---------- 9 to 12
8----- 13.89%---- 72.22%---------- 13 to 14
9----- 11.11%---- 83.33%---------- 15 to 17
10--- 8.33%----- 91.67%----------- 18
11--- 5.56%----- 97.22%----------- 19
12--- 2.78%----- 100.00%---------- 20

Of course a d20 can't properly simulate a 2d6 roll as 1 in 20 is not the same as 1 in 36, the latter is a smaller probability.

 

[sideranautae]

Well you can compare them, just because Traveller DCs modify your roll and not your target they are still probabilities. 2d6 is kind of like rolling a 36-sided die, except the probabilities don't come in even increments as they do in a d20 die.

2d6 P-width Prcnt roll 1d20
2 2.78% 2.78% 1
3 5.56% 8.33% 2
4 8.33% 16.67% 3
5 11.11% 27.78% 4 to 6
6 13.89% 41.67% 7 to 8
7 16.67% 58.33% 9 to 12
8 13.89% 72.22% 13 to 14
9 11.11% 83.33% 15 to 17
10 8.33% 91.67% 18
11 5.56% 97.22% 19
12 2.78% 100.00% 20

Exactly. That's how I ported MgT tasks to D20 paradigm.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

I did a D20 to Traveller port. My port was based on the words used for DC and Task Difficulty with full knowledge that D20 rolls are flatline and Traveller rolls are a bell curve (because the story is more important than the dice). Still, people need to roll dice sometimes. So conversion became easy as essentially D20 bonuses became Traveller DMs like so:

DC DM
+-0 +-0
+-1 +-0
+-2 +-1
+-3 +-1
+-4 +-2
+-5 +-2
+-6 +-2
+-7 +-3
+-8 +-3
+-9 +-4
+-10 +-4

 

[sideranautae]

I did a D20 to Traveller port. My port was based on the words used for DC and Task Difficulty with full knowledge that D20 rolls are flatline and Traveller rolls are a bell curve (because the story is more important than the dice). Still, people need to roll dice sometimes. So conversion became easy as essentially D20 bonuses became Traveller DMs like so:

The bell curve aspect isn't relevant when you 1st figure the % chance BEFORE converting to D20. It has no dice roll effect that cannot be duplicated by "flat" %.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

D20 is linear. 2D6 is not. So you're never gonna have a proper translation/conversion between the two. Two different systems entirely.