First Blush

[Jeff Hopper]

I'm still waiting to see all these brilliant ships made by players during the last 38+ years. All I see are the same old Scout and Far Trader ships being used by players.

A small sample of them can be seen on the Citizens of the Imperium website in the Imperial Museum of Art section under Starships and Spacecraft.

In fact, I can only think of a handful of Traveller fan websites that do not have spacecraft designed by Players and Referees for their campaigns, or even just for fun.

A small section with rudimentary spacecraft design, maybe limited to 1000 tons or less, would be a good selling point for the Core Rulebook. It would look very odd if it was not there.

 

[Takei]

A small section with rudimentary spacecraft design, maybe limited to 1000 tons or less, would be a good selling point for the Core Rulebook. It would look very odd if it was not there.

I also feel it would be odd to have the main Traveller rulebook with no ship design in it - unless the core rules were released as a three-book set like the original box.

 

[Golan2072]

I would love to see a stripped-down, basic version of the High Guard system in the core book, if only for the sake of completeness and also to allow ship customization by players without having to wait for another book.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

The wait shouldn't be too long between the books, since they were written together at the same time. High Guard just needs to be colorized as well once this book's color-scheme is finalized.

 

[Matt Wilson]

IIRC Getting the playtest core book beta provides access to the high guard beta as well? Y/N?

 

[AndrewW]

IIRC Getting the playtest core book beta provides access to the high guard beta as well? Y/N?

Yes:

Access to draft (Word format) documents of the ‘core set’ of Traveller rule books – High Guard, Central Supply Catalogue, Vehicle Handbook, and the Traveller Companion, plus the chance to comment upon them and thus influence Traveller at a fundamental level.

See:

http://blog.mongoosepublishing.co.uk/

 

[AndrewW]

The wait shouldn't be too long between the books, since they were written together at the same time. High Guard just needs to be colorized as well once this book's color-scheme is finalized.

High Guard needs a little more then that but a lot of it has been written.

 

[Ifandbut]

I think because of canon, players want the same ship each time. In Star Wars, everyone wants the Millennium Falcon. Like it's the only ship design for that galaxy, or something. I should tell players that those PP books are on drive thru.

Some people (like myself) dont give a rat's ass about cannon. I bought MGT because of the core systems and the feel of the game. One of the reasons I love the MGT books because there is very little cannon in them.

I also feel it would be odd to have the main Traveller rulebook with no ship design in it - unless the core rules were released as a three-book set like the original box.

I hope they are released at the same time as well. It sucked getting into D&D 5e and waiting like 3 months for the DMG to be released.

 

[Cugel]

I would love to see a stripped-down, basic version of the High Guard system in the core book, if only for the sake of completeness and also to allow ship customization by players without having to wait for another book.

I'm not claiming it's universal, but we did this on the fly: my players had a Yacht, and we started in the Sindal subsector on Reagar (one of the players rolled a Count, newly appointed to Sindal). The problem arose when we realized with J1 they couldn't even travel to the other 2 Imperium-aligned systems...so, handwave to J2 for the Yacht, move on.

Now those who know what's in HG will tell me how wrong that was... :wink:

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I would love to see a stripped-down, basic version of the High Guard system in the core book, if only for the sake of completeness and also to allow ship customization by players without having to wait for another book.

I'm not claiming it's universal, but we did this on the fly: my players had a Yacht, and we started in the Sindal subsector on Reagar (one of the players rolled a Count, newly appointed to Sindal). The problem arose when we realized with J1 they couldn't even travel to the other 2 Imperium-aligned systems...so, handwave to J2 for the Yacht, move on.

Now those who know what's in HG will tell me how wrong that was... :wink:

The referee just needs to plan ahead is all.

 

[Jeff Hopper]

I would love to see a stripped-down, basic version of the High Guard system in the core book, if only for the sake of completeness and also to allow ship customization by players without having to wait for another book.

I'm not claiming it's universal, but we did this on the fly: my players had a Yacht, and we started in the Sindal subsector on Reagar (one of the players rolled a Count, newly appointed to Sindal). The problem arose when we realized with J1 they couldn't even travel to the other 2 Imperium-aligned systems...so, handwave to J2 for the Yacht, move on.

Now those who know what's in HG will tell me how wrong that was... :wink:

The referee just needs to plan ahead is all.

And the Referee could plan ahead before, when there were spacecraft construction rules in the Core Rulebook.

 

[Cugel]

I would love to see a stripped-down, basic version of the High Guard system in the core book, if only for the sake of completeness and also to allow ship customization by players without having to wait for another book.

I'm not claiming it's universal, but we did this on the fly: my players had a Yacht, and we started in the Sindal subsector on Reagar (one of the players rolled a Count, newly appointed to Sindal). The problem arose when we realized with J1 they couldn't even travel to the other 2 Imperium-aligned systems...so, handwave to J2 for the Yacht, move on.

Now those who know what's in HG will tell me how wrong that was... :wink:

The referee just needs to plan ahead is all.

Normally this ref would, but since I was notified ~15 min before game time that I was running...well, off we go! :wink:

 

[MongooseMatt]

I guess I will post this here as well.

I understand that spacecraft design has been changed and will be fully detailed in High Guard, but the lack of even a rudimentary ship design sequence in the new Core Rules is a big negative for me. It distances the new rules from its Classic Traveller roots, which was one of the main selling points of the game. One of the greatest appeals of Traveller is the fact that it is a toolkit allowing people to create much of their own material - the exclusion of one of the most used toolkits by enthusiasts from the Core Rules is a detriment to the book's commercial viability.

This was the subject of a _lot_ of debate, and we knew there would be negative views on it. Our reasons were thus;

1. _All_ ship design could be concentrated in one place.
2. Splitting off a 'quick' design system could easily add incompatibilities within the design process, the exact opposite of what we are trying to achieve.
3. High Guard will be the second book released in the new line - you will only be waiting a month for it.
4. All beta playtesters will have at least a working design set they can get cracking with.
5. We need the pages for other material - the Core Rulebook was supposed to be sub-200 pages (which we have blown right past). Putting the design system in would break the camel's back.

In the end, we thought it more valuable for the line as a whole (as opposed to the Core Book alone) to have everything in High Guard.

 

[phavoc]

This was the subject of a _lot_ of debate, and we knew there would be negative views on it. Our reasons were thus;

1. _All_ ship design could be concentrated in one place.
2. Splitting off a 'quick' design system could easily add incompatibilities within the design process, the exact opposite of what we are trying to achieve.
3. High Guard will be the second book released in the new line - you will only be waiting a month for it.
4. All beta playtesters will have at least a working design set they can get cracking with.
5. We need the pages for other material - the Core Rulebook was supposed to be sub-200 pages (which we have blown right past). Putting the design system in would break the camel's back.

In the end, we thought it more valuable for the line as a whole (as opposed to the Core Book alone) to have everything in High Guard.

Reason #2 had been one of the longest-running Traveller debates about ship design that I can recall, going all the way back to CT with the introduction of HG. Probably the best way to address that idea would be to put in only items that might get upgraded by a player from the stock ships, which is kind of how things are leaning. You could even conceivably leave details of systems and such out and push them into HG, but I don't think that's necessarily the best idea.

I think setting the Core Rulebook to being less than 200 pages is not an option - not without splitting off something else very major - like world creation, or vehicle creation. A number of places have already been identified as requiring MORE clarification. And I think you are running into the wall of explanation vs. page length. As designers you are too close to the rules to see the ambiguity and confusion that gets injected into rulemaking by making the explanation TOO short. That and you are already looking for any and all ways you can cut page length. So you have double-blinders on as far as that goes. You can't target BOTH new players AND experienced players with that philosophy - one side has to give.

Vehicle design and world building are two areas that need a LOT of detailing, much like starship building does, so they would be good candidates to be removed. The key here is IF you are going to remove something and put it into another supplement then you really need to make sure it's a quality expansion that not only has the previous information but adds to the overall design and enhances the gaming experience. There are many out there who want only the basics, but probably just as many who love to tear into the micro aspects of the game mechanics - hence there was(is) a market for things like Striker.

 

[-Daniel-]

Vehicle design and world building are two areas that need a LOT of detailing, much like starship building does, so they would be good candidates to be removed.

I thought Vehicle Design was already out of the core book. Did I miss something?

I am out and about and can't see my copy of the book right new. :wink:

 

[Infojunky]

1. _All_ ship design could be concentrated in one place.
2. Splitting off a 'quick' design system could easily add incompatibilities within the design process, the exact opposite of what we are trying to achieve.
3. High Guard will be the second book released in the new line - you will only be waiting a month for it.
4. All beta playtesters will have at least a working design set they can get cracking with.
5. We need the pages for other material - the Core Rulebook was supposed to be sub-200 pages (which we have blown right past). Putting the design system in would break the camel's back.

I am cool with all that, What I would like is some rough rules of thumb about rating current vehicles and ships while we are in the process of testing....

As it stand there are a number of issues stemming from the change over that a little breath of works as would help solve if y'all get my meaning.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

OK, I am going to swim upstream and say I am OK with all the design stuff being in HG as long as all of the designs are RIGHT.

I have been fighting inconsistent design rules since 1981. Having that finally fixed will be a nice thing.

 

[AndrewW]

OK, I am going to swim upstream and say I am OK with all the design stuff being in HG as long as all of the designs are RIGHT.

I have been fighting inconsistent design rules since 1981. Having that finally fixed will be a nice thing.

Hopefully this has been corrected. If you run across something that isn't, well that's what the open playtest will be for so let us know. If you have any particular concerns though feel free to express then even before then.

 

[Jeff Hopper]

I guess I will post this here as well.

I understand that spacecraft design has been changed and will be fully detailed in High Guard, but the lack of even a rudimentary ship design sequence in the new Core Rules is a big negative for me. It distances the new rules from its Classic Traveller roots, which was one of the main selling points of the game. One of the greatest appeals of Traveller is the fact that it is a toolkit allowing people to create much of their own material - the exclusion of one of the most used toolkits by enthusiasts from the Core Rules is a detriment to the book's commercial viability.

This was the subject of a _lot_ of debate, and we knew there would be negative views on it. Our reasons were thus;

1. _All_ ship design could be concentrated in one place.
2. Splitting off a 'quick' design system could easily add incompatibilities within the design process, the exact opposite of what we are trying to achieve.
3. High Guard will be the second book released in the new line - you will only be waiting a month for it.
4. All beta playtesters will have at least a working design set they can get cracking with.
5. We need the pages for other material - the Core Rulebook was supposed to be sub-200 pages (which we have blown right past). Putting the design system in would break the camel's back.

In the end, we thought it more valuable for the line as a whole (as opposed to the Core Book alone) to have everything in High Guard.

Thank you for the response, it is appreciated. I also hope that you understand that opposing viewpoints given are not done out of a desire to troll the forums, but to do our part to help make MgT2 into a worthy successor of MgT1 and an economically viable product for Mongoose Publishing. Mongoose has done a great job with the Traveller line and we wish for that legacy to continue. Our passion is not meant to be strident, even though it may seem that way.

 

[IanBruntlett]

OK, I am going to swim upstream and say I am OK with all the design stuff being in HG as long as all of the designs are RIGHT.

+1