Firebolt

[SylvrDragon]

Ok, when the Fleet Lists state that the Firebolt may replace up to 4 Auroras as a patrol choice does that mean I can pay 1 patrol to lose the 4 auroras carried by my Omega and then replace them with 4 firebolts?

 

[Lokai]

that is correct sir. But i'm not sure, assuming your playing in a campaign, that you can PURCHASE them in the same manner, think that only applies to FIELDING them.

 

[SylvrDragon]

That very thing had come to my mind as well. You probably purchase them normally for a campaign and then just pay to field them each time as normal. This would leave one to wonder as to what would happen to the "spare" auroras. Would they simply be place in reserve? OF course if they were reserve you wouldn't be able to field them as normal patrols, but I suppose they could sit back as a sort of surplus depot for ships that lose fighters, or theu would be there if you decided to not pay for the firebolts in a certain mission.

 

[Lokai]

I'd imagine they'd simply be treated as independent flights like the fighters that replaced them were until they replaced them

 

[Ripple]

That is an interesting question, as if you bought the ship with the Firebolts there would be no 'spare' auroras, but if you bought Firebolts and swapped them in there would be. Have to ask how my group feels about that, good catch on a potential issue.

Ripple

 

[Chernobyl]

I probably would not allow it unless the shipboard auroras had been destroyed or lost in some manner. Previous rulings have said that you can't field the fighters from a ship independantly; while you might not be using them in that manner here explicitly (ie, you didn't use the auroras in a game that campaign turn) that's what is implied?

Chern

 

[Harry Lonsdale]

You can transfer fighters between ships during the Repair and Reinforcement phase, so that seems to be a good time to decide what fighters they're carrying (assuming you have them available). It just means that you'd have to decide before each turn, rather than when the ship is sent out to battle.

 

[SylvrDragon]

I probably would not allow it unless the shipboard auroras had been destroyed or lost in some manner. Previous rulings have said that you can't field the fighters from a ship independantly; while you might not be using them in that manner here explicitly (ie, you didn't use the auroras in a game that campaign turn) that's what is implied?

Chern

No, that's not what was implied in the very least. In fact I specifically state that you'd be unable to field them as independent patrols.

 

[GhostRecon]

I remember reading somewhere that, based on patrol level, you could field the fighters of a carrier in a battle the carrier itself wouldn't be participating in... (I.e., you pay in FAP for that specific battle, but every fighter loss is deducted from the carrier's fighter compliment, the fighters are not seperately purchased).

 

[SylvrDragon]

I remember reading somewhere that, based on patrol level, you could field the fighters of a carrier in a battle the carrier itself wouldn't be participating in... (I.e., you pay in FAP for that specific battle, but every fighter loss is deducted from the carrier's fighter compliment, the fighters are not seperately purchased).

Unfortunately, one way or the other, this is doesn't matter because Firebolts can only be purchase as separate patrols outside of scenarios. You can take them as a patrol choice to get 2 flights, or you can pay a patrol choice and replace up to 4 flights of starfuries when preparing for a scenario. So the problem comes when using their second option in a scenario as part of a campaign.

 

[Ripple]

Ah, I see...

I hadn't looked at it that way for campaign buys. I had seen it as being possible to say I'm buying a Firebolt outfitted Warlock. Here's my 30 rr for the War plus Patrol point. What your saying is that you would have to (and it does make more economic sense) buy the Warlock with its auroras and then make a sepereate purchase of firebolts. You could then within a scenario put the auroras on leave and play the firebolts off the warlock. Only issue I see here is VPs, but that is an in scenario consideration.... so maybe no issue there.

Under that case, I'd think the auroras are stuck on shore patrol until the Warlock dies and they get freed up to be an independent wing. You have paid for the firebolts separately so they remain themselves.

Ripple

 

[The_Mhor]

So, Buying an Omega for 20RR and spending 3RR to upgrade to Firebolts nets you four Firebolts rather than the usual wing of two?

If all of your Omega's Auroras were destroyed in combat and you pay 3RR to replace them in a campaign can you still choose get the Four Firebolts, or would you have to spend 6RR after the initial purchase of the vessel to get two wings of two to restock an Omega?

Secondary question to that, and possibly related to the Fleet Carrier discussion: Say I'm in a campaign, and I've lost about ten wings of Starfurys (Mixture of Auroras and Tbolts) from my Poseidon. I regenerate two Thunderbolts in the end phase, and buy a wing of two Firebolts for 3RR and place them on the Poseidon. In the next campaign turn end phase (say having not used the Poseidon or lost any of it's flights) can I choose to have the created flights from "Fleet Carrier" be Firebolts? Or can I choose to generate Firebolts if none were left on the Poseidon? Or what if there were none stationed on the Poseidon to start with, could I create them then once some of the initial flights are lost?

The mind boggles with possibilities at this point...

 

[Ripple]

Not sure on the fleet carrier, the last campaign we were in we dropped the rule as fraught with unseen abuses and went with a free wing for each player (patrol cost only ones) each turn...

but, as I was corrected Sylver, you can't buy the upgrade with RR, only the wings. So, assuming this is right, the campaign list would always be buying wings at 3rr (that what patrol is going for now days, need to get my own copy of the rules soon, this borrowing is getting to me).

The upgrade is only used for FAPs with in a scenario. Within a scenario you could allocate a patrol point to upgrade an Omega's furies to Firebolts, thus allowing you to field the firebolts without losing an initiative sink or giving away any VPs should they be lost.

Looked at that way I would think the fleet carrier would only ever rebuild fighters it could be purchased with... so firebolts would never free build. I would tend to want to do it that it would rebuild its complent from the previous turn... or last turn fielded myself (switching out fighters, at least given how T-bolts and furies hang) would seem to require a refit (think they talk about this in the show... but not sure). That way maybe you don't screw over the folks with the fighter upgrades.

Ripple

 

[jjdodger]

In a campaign, when buying your base fleet, (or reinforcements), if you were to buy a posiden, and 2 patrol points of firebats (4 flights), when its time to go to a scenario, you can choose to swap 4 auroras for the firebolts, for 1 patrol points. you can then field the auroras as an independant flights for 1 patrol point, or send them off on a seperate battle, or just not use them. As long as you buy the ships for your fleet as seperate items, when you generate the scenario, you can then swap flights around. See page 99 for my basis on this.

 

[SylvrDragon]

After much consideration, as well as viewing opinoins on here and reading the book, I came to pretty much the same conclusion as Ripple. I'd certainly agree with his post.

To jjdodger: Hm...I can see the logic there. I wouldn't field auroras as a patrol anyway though...not when I can take Novas, if I'm playing an older version of Earth, or Omegas. X3