Field Catalogue - are there plans for a 202X update?

[ResslynHalvik]

Oh? My reply was meant as a condensed version of those pages.

The only difference is that I referred to the modifiers in the second paragraph as 'mass' modifiers, because the book gave no name/title to match the modifier descriptors of the second paragraph.

Oh, I see - sorry!

Those modifiers make no sense to me. I can't work out even if a negative or a positive number means more recoil.

If a bigger negative number = less recoil, then is it right that a battle rifle firing say .338 x 85mm Win Mag rounds has less recall than a zero-G weapon?

 

[Limpin Legin]

A two handed weapon with a full stock should be relatively less recoil than a one handed weapon with no stock. Of course it depends on the size/calibre of the ammo and it depends on the presence of traits like low-recoil, recoil compensation or zero-g.

The recoil due to size/calibre of the ammo is reflected in the game as the number of damage dice.

Recoil compensation: diverts some of the propellant gas in a direction that counters recoil, and appears as a Functional Feature in the game.

Zero-G: This weapon trait is used in the Field Catalogue but the descriptor definition is on pg 79 of the Core Rulebook.

 

[ResslynHalvik]

Yeah - I just can't make head or tail of that section of the FC is saying. It seems to say that a battle rifle has recoil of 3 - 6 = -3, so even a person with no Gun Combat skill at all can handle it, whereas the recoil of a Zero-G accelerator pistol with explosive rounds is 5 - 4 = 1, so you have to have at least Gun Combat 1 not to affected by it. That seems ... counter-intuitive. It's been a while since I've shot anything, but I'm sure that I found the recoil of a .303 rifle (which the FC would have as 3 - 6 = -3) much heavier than that of a .22 handgun (which FC would have as 2 - 2 = 0).

Later - I realised that that this isn't about recoil at all, but about muzzle climb from the rotational torque of firing a light and/or automatic weapon. And the number of damage dice is a really bad proxy for the muzzle velocity of the round (an HE round and a ball round with the same cartridge characteristic should have the same muzzle velocity and imbue the same rotational torque and muzzle climb, but the FC rules that the HE round has more because it does more damage). And as the rules say, we have to use the base number of damage dice (which I now realise mean the base number for the ammunition class, from a few pages later) not those of the actual ammunition being used, although the section and table entries for snub/rocket projectiles in those later pages just handwave that they "[produce] very little recoil" or "[don't generate] heavy recoil".

Or, I concede , we could just about take the view that both are an aspect of recoil, and the FC is using "recoil" to mean the muzzle climb caused by off-centre recoil, whereas I am using it to mean the kick felt by the operator.

 

[Limpin Legin]

I just can't make head or tail of that section of the FC is saying. It seems to say that a battle rifle has recoil of 3 - 6 = -3, so even a person with no Gun Combat skill at all can handle it, whereas the recoil of a Zero-G accelerator pistol with explosive rounds is 5 - 4 = 1, so you have to have at least Gun Combat 1 not to affected by it.

Correct up until a point. Remember I mentioned you add the weapon's Auto trait to the score, in Post #37? you have forgotten to add the Auto rate to the battle rifle's recoil. Since battle rifle is Auto 3, it's total recoil is 0, meaning you need skill 0 in gun combat.

That seems ... counter-intuitive. It's been a while since I've shot anything,

It is heavier in the shoulder (although I never fired a rifle, I have used shotgun and pistol). Your shoulder takes the impact with less physical movement ... perhaps?

we could just about take the view that both are an aspect of recoil, and the FC is using "recoil" to mean the muzzle climb caused by off-centre recoil, whereas I am using it to mean the kick felt by the operator.

The FC mentions the game mechanic idea is "the mass of the weapon helps absorb recoil."

 

[ResslynHalvik]

Correct up until a point. Remember I mentioned you add the weapon's Auto trait to the score, in Post #37? you have forgotten to add the Auto rate to the battle rifle's recoil. Since battle rifle is Auto 3, it's total recoil is 0, meaning you need skill 0 in gun combat.


It is heavier in the shoulder (although I never fired a rifle, I have used shotgun and pistol). Your shoulder takes the impact with less physical movement ... perhaps?


The FC mentions the game mechanic idea is "the mass of the weapon helps absorb recoil."

A battle rifle is probably automatic, and may or may not fire with auto selected (the recoil penalty for auto will only apply if it does), but in this part of the FC rules "battle rifle" denotes a class of ammunition (measured in calibre but presumably using that as a short hand for full cartridge size). A manual, repeater or semi-auto rifle (such as a sniper rifle or big game hunting rifle) might also use ammunition in that class and have no auto option.

I certainly agree that a rifle has less muzzle creep than a handgun of the same calibre.

 

[Condottiere]

And then you get the shotgun.

Recoil mechanics seem okay in Traveller, and you get the chance to mitigate negative effects.

 

[ResslynHalvik]

Yeah, I've never fired a shotgun under measurable conditions but I assume that muzzle creep gives a spread for "second half" of the pellet load (assuming it's firing shot rather than slugs), and the same would apply to a handgun firing shot shells. And that any kind of rapid fire with a gun firing shot gets you severe creep.