Feudal Technocracy

[Sturn]

I didn't want to hi-jack Mithras's "Government Types" thread so I started a new one. By complete coincidence to Mithras's thread I've been recently having trouble imagining some varied Feudal Technocracies for 3 worlds I'm fleshing out.

The classic type-5 government definition was always a problem for me: "Ruling functions are performed by specific individuals for persons who agree to be ruled by them. Relationships are based on the performance of technical activities which are mutually beneficial". Ok, what exactlty is that supposed to mean? :shock: Internet definition of Technocracy simplified seems to be that people are picked to rule by what they know. Doesn't have to be high technology, just rule by experts, not rule by elected officials that may or may not know what they are doing.

So what does adding "Feudal" to Technocracy do to it? The experts pass their positions to their descendants? If so they might not be experts themselves at ruling and you end up with just plain feudalism in a couple generations. There is no option in Traveller for just a "Technocracy".

Where did Marc Miller come up with the term Feudal Technocracy anyway? Something mentioned in a 1960-70's scifi book? Did he mean the modern definition of a Technocracy or something different?

I came up with 3 varying government descriptions for my three type 5 governments, chime in if you think any don't qualify:

TL 7, 20,000 population: When the holocaust of the Long Night struck, the smartest scientists and engineers stepped in to help the colony survive. An assembly of scientists arose to lead the colony that has evolved into the current government generations later. Each government ministry (education, military, mining, administration, life support, supply, etc) is ran by individuals chosen solely on expertise in these fields. Replacements are not elected, but are picked through a regimented testing program. Seems to be a classic "Technocracy", nothing "feudal" about it though.

TL 8, 500,000 population: Council of departmental heads, each an expert in his/her field. The noble system later imposed during the Rule of Man made the Council positions hereditary. Now, by law, the families of the Council are required to train each new generation of their family in the family's departmental specialty. Elements of both a technocracy and feudal system.

TL 5: Colony began early in the Long Night. When the fledgling colony almost failed, the most productive farmers of the original settler group became the de facto leaders who had control of and could supply the colony with food. The descendants of these original leaders still manage several large farms that govern and feed the population of 20,000.

 

[BP]

The first (TL 7) could be an 8 - Civil service bureaucracy. Since it has agencies, not individuals lead - and the selection process does not mention choose of those governed (MGT gives examples as Technocracy and Communism).

 

[Epicenter]

Being a TNE player, Feudal Technocracy always has elements of a Technologically-Elevated Government in my mind. So keep that in mind for what I type out next.

Feudal Technocracy is government, usually by a small ruling class that controls the information and technology who then dole out the technology and information out to the masses who provide oaths of fealty who then provide bodies to run farms, serve as soldiers, help with building projects, and so on. The emphasis here is on relatively small governments with oaths and so on replacing currency and freedom of movement.

A good example of this might be on a world that's suffered from some sort of collapse or perhaps were just very low-tech. Someone comes along with a number of methane-fuelled tractors, combines, and other crop-processing equipment, as well as firearms and combat armor. In return for a share of the food the local farmers produce, the guy (and some selected people from the local villages) arm themselves and protect the land against intruders as well as leasing out the tractors and other farming equipment to the masses to make their lives easier (and more productive). While the guy might train locals to do simple stuff to the tractors (like repair them), he'd handle all the upkeep tasks on them like changing tires, checking the oil, and repairing them. In addition, the fellow has a number of expert systems and so forth (which only he knows how to use) which can identify and diagnose various crop rots, livestock diseases, and well-digging and so on, the knowledge of which he doles out to the masses.

Another example might be on a very high-tech world. The people on the world are under a planetary aristocracy (like the standard TI). Each community, due to the presence of high-tech micromanufacturing and compact knowledge databases, is essentially independent, which is how the people as they want a leader whose face they know and they can talk to so communities are small (perhaps a few hundred members at most). This aristo handles contacts with other communities, the world-leader, and so on. The planetary leader hands down requirements and needs to those sworn to him, and those sworn to him then communicate what is needed to the people under him or her and they work together to fulfill what's required. As it's a very high tech society, these requirements usually aren't totally drugery in the mud sorts but perhaps "We need a 30% increase in solar power production to increase crystal production. So the Orbital Clans are required to build this out. The Mining Clans will fulfill the quota for the extra materials and will send the processed materials up by elevator to the Orbital Clans."

 

[Mithras]

I'm pretty sure that H Beam Piper uses the term in Space Vikings, and of course MWM was a fan of that book. Not sure if there's a definition in there though!

 

[captainjack23]

Ha ! Found it. here's somthing I posted on the subjectsome time ago -long since buried.

FWIW,
Feudal tecnocracy was described best as an artifact of the long night - and a general systems collapse. The people who had the knowhow to keep things going were either recruited (or encouraged to stay) by being given more and more perks and privileges, while also gaining more political power thru control of vital resources (Water, electricity, food - atmosphere in some cases) until they became a ruling class, possibly with strict rules about social flow between the two.

It's more than just the typical have/have not relationship suggested above - its more of a caste system, really, with enforcement provided by control of a life supporting resource or resources. It is a much more rigid and ruthlessly conservative system than a simple oligarchy or autocracy. In fact, given that it is the most common GT generated by CT, oit has been suggested that the glacial pace of technological advancement suggested by the OTU is a direct consequence of the prevalence of this kind of government.

It also is a type of government not currently found on earth since irrigation empires (Egypt, some china, some mesoamerica) went away.

Caste based rule , I note, is another government type worth discussion .

 

[Sturn]

The examples above seem to point out a key issue with a caste of ruling experts is how such a system is kept in place from generation to generation. For example, quite a few of the examples were experts stepping in to help a civilization on the edge of collapse. This makes complete sense. What doesn't make sense is why such a government would still be in place a 100 years later after the original experts have died off and everything is hunky-dory. To keep such a "rule by experts" system in place, there has to be something to keep it going. This might be why Feudal was added. The technocracies that continue from generation to generation (not just a temporary measure in a crisis) have a feudal-like system in place to keep it going.

My TL 8 example, as I said, was just a technocracy. I used selection of leaders by testing to keep the government in place. BP pointed out this made it more of a civil bureacracy. So, I made adjustments to keep it from being a civil bureacracy....

When the holocaust of the Long Night struck, the smartest scientists and engineers stepped in to help the colony survive. An assembly of scientists arose to lead the colony that has evolved into the current government generations later. Each government ministry (education, military, mining, administration, etc) is led by a single individual who is an expert in his field and has complete power over his ministry including appointing new employees for his ministry. Each minister picks his own expert successor when he is ready to retire.

......and the result was a feudal element added to the technocracy to make it self-perpetrating. Marc Miller or someone must have thought this through quite a bit.

 

[BP]

[EDIT - oops, sorry Sturn my post refers to captainjack23's...]

One problem with this - it seems to imply knowledge of technology as, well restricted...

Like martial arts in fuedal Japan.

Or the medicine man in many cultures.

IMHO This wouldn't seem to make sense in the 3I as the most common form of Gov. This would have likely resulted in Jump and Gravitics under strict control by minorities...

Plus it doesn't seem very voluntary (ala 'agree to be ruled' ) - but rather involuntary.

 

[BP]

...I made adjustments to keep it from being a civil bureacracy....

When the holocaust of the Long Night struck, the smartest scientists and engineers stepped in to help the colony survive. An assembly of scientists arose to lead the colony that has evolved into the current government generations later. Each government ministry (education, military, mining, administration, etc) is led by a single individual who is an expert in his field and has complete power over his ministry including appointing new employees for his ministry. Each minister picks his own expert successor when he is ready to retire.

Recommend changing the 'stepped in' to 'were asked to step in' and 'arose to lead' to 'chosen to lead' and maybe something about their esteemed/elite status... to match up with the 'agree to be ruled' aspect.

......and the result was a feudal element added to the technocracy to make it self-perpetrating. Marc Miller or someone must have thought this through quite a bit.

I think they do - though we don't always understand their thinking, and sometimes they just get it wrong. One of the things I loved about CT was the well thought out game mechanics behind most things - and I think I large part of this owes itself to Miller's professional background.

 

[Sturn]

......and the result was a feudal element added to the technocracy to make it self-perpetrating. Marc Miller or someone must have thought this through quite a bit.

I think they do - though we don't always understand their thinking, and sometimes they just get it wrong. One of the things I loved about CT was the well thought out game mechanics behind most things - and I think I large part of this owes itself to Miller's professional background.

Recommend changing the 'stepped in' to 'were asked to step in' and 'arose to lead' to 'chosen to lead' and maybe something about their esteemed/elite status... to match up with the 'agree to be ruled' aspect.

This also makes the strange, specific wording of the Feudal Technocracy description make more sense. Many of the examples we described are close to a dictatorship. Marc may have been pointing out that the populace was allowing themselves to be ruled by the experts to further differentiate Gov 5 from one of the Dictator types. Feudal aspect keeps it a step away from a Civil Bureacracy and "for persons who agree to be ruled by them" keeps it a step away from a Dictatorship.

 

[BP]

... Marc may have been pointing out that the populace was allowing themselves to be ruled by the experts to further differentiate Gov 5 from one of the Dictator types. Feudal aspect keeps it a step away from a Civil Bureacracy and "for persons who agree to be ruled by them" keeps it a step away from a Dictatorship.

That's my read.

 

[Sir Brad]

The way I see it is those with control of the Guns, Land, Means of Production and selected Key Knowledge are in charge.

Without control of at least three out of four of the above your in the Gentry not the Nobility where you are joined by those with Money.

 

[GamerDude]

Where did Marc Miller come up with the term Feudal Technocracy anyway? Something mentioned in a 1960-70's scifi book? Did he mean the modern definition of a Technocracy or something different?

Ok, in another thread I posted Wikipedia links to their entry on Feudal Technocracy, but I can't find that link now.

The definition basically was a feudal society where the scientists and engineers rule using technology as their power base.

On http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3ac.html quoting the core GURPS Traveller
"Feudal Technocracy. Government by specific individuals for those who agree to be ruled. Relationships are based on the performance of technical activities which are mutually beneficial."


On http://www.netflames-rpg-bunker.us/darrian.html
Government of Daryen:
"Daryen is ruled, like some of the other local systems by a feudal technocracy. Feudal technocracy may take many forms , but it typically establishes a hierarchy of noble ranks based on technological achievement or responsibility."


I hope these help.

 

[Gentleman John]

I think the best example of a Feudal Technocracy in fiction is found in the second book of the Deathworld trilogy. For those who haven't read the book, Jason DinAlt is marooned on a primitive world where different social groupings have different technologies available to them. At the bottom end of the scale are the slave groups that wander the shores of the world and scavenge using tools that are supplied to them by more advanced clans. Other groups have different technologies that they use to exploit advantages in trading.

The setup is feudal in that each person in the society owes direct allegiance to another person. There are very few free agents (until DinAlt meddles in the politics of the world), and those few are regarded with deep suspicion because they have no loyalties. The government is a technocracy in that it is government by those who have the skill (ie, technos) and technology to enforce their rule.

I am aware that feudal technocracies are one of those areas that are disputed in Traveller (like flat hex maps for stars and the use of reactionless drives), but I find Harrison's version easy to understand and explain to my players.

 

[alex_greene]

A government is feudal if one person at the top of the pyramid holds all the power, and parcels out shares of that power to subordinates, who then parcel out smaller shares to those below them.

This is the origin of all those Noble titles, such as Emperor, King, Duke, Baron and so on. Every vassal has responsibility to their little parcel of land, receives tithes (measured as 10 percent of the subordinate land parcel's income) from the vassals whom he controls and sends his own tithe to his own superior - which eventually ends up in the coffers of the Monarch.

With a Feudal Technocracy, the principle is somewhat similar - but in this case, the government controls the distribution of technology.

A monarch might decide to hog all the really nifty toys and keep them for himself, and parcel out lesser tech level devices down the pyramid - but even the least sophisticated technological devices could be a good TL or two higher than the vassals' ability to understand, meaning that if that technology breaks down, they have to send for the higher ups and experts to come down from On High and repair the tech.

For a tithe, of course.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I have used three different versions of GOV 5 in the past.

1. Hydraulic Empire - Low TL or non-habitable
The government controls some key element needed for survival, such as water or air. Since the government literally controls life, there is almost no chance of rebellion from within.

2. Multiple Corporatations -High TL or high population
Basically, it is GOV 1 but with elements of GOV 7. Each corporation controls some aspect of the civilization. Think of the Corporate futures envisioned by many SciFi writers. It isn't one monolithic corporation, it is many corporations that control everything.

3. Techno-Priests - Mixed TL or TNE
This works better with a Long Night or TNE type situation, but basically, technology is in the hands of a small group that keeps it working for everyone. In many ways this is similar to #1 above, but with elements of Hi Tech and Low Tech mixed together.

TEDS are a variation of #3 above.

Feudal Technocracy is one of those OLD Traveller issues that never has seemed to be resolved.

 

[Mithras]

That's the way that the old Rollerball movie did it... government divvied up between big corporations.

2. Multiple Corporatations -High TL or high population
Basically, it is GOV 1 but with elements of GOV 7. Each corporation controls some aspect of the civilization. Think of the Corporate futures envisioned by many SciFi writers. It isn't one monolithic corporation, it is many corporations that control everything.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Yep that was one of my inspirations.

I think it fits nicely as a SciFi future government that doesn't really fit anywhere else on the table. Gov 1 only comes about on low pop worlds, so Feudal Technocracy comes about at higher populations. At the very highest populations, you could have a Charismatic Oligarchy... All three could be variations of a corporate government.

That's how I play it anyway.

There is a TNE novel out called "The Long Way Home" that goes into the differences (or lack thereof) between the Technarchs of Flammarion and the TEDs of the Wilds... I thought it telling and incorporated that idea into my (everchanging) definition of Feudal Technocracy.

Someone on another board (Avenger I think) mentioned that a Hydraulic Empire would fit the definition of a FT, so I added that part as well.

"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" also as an "Air Tax" that sparks a revolution. That would be an example of a Hydraulic Empire on an uninhabitable planet.